may seem a strange question, but I was hoping somebody here know who cut and mastered the Voyager Golden Record (Gold plated copper 16RPM)
A pretty special job:-)
There is data signals on the record as well - not sure what 'format' though.
it's singlesided and excists in 3 copies - 1 in outer space.
Voyager Golden Record
Moderators: piaptk, tragwag, Steve E., Aussie0zborn
Found part of the answer:
'Pyral
S.A., a corporation in Creteil, France had forwarded the blank records to the JVC Cutting Center, Inc. in
Boulder, Colorado who was contracted by CBS Records to cut the lacquer masters. Once that was done,
they were sent to the James G. Lee Record Processing center in Gardena, California, the company contracted
to cut and gold plate the master Voyager records.'
Here: http://pub-lib.jpl.nasa.gov/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-533/JPL151,%20Voyager%20Interstellar%20Record%20Collection,%20%201976-1977.pdf
no mention of the process or individuals involved.
'Pyral
S.A., a corporation in Creteil, France had forwarded the blank records to the JVC Cutting Center, Inc. in
Boulder, Colorado who was contracted by CBS Records to cut the lacquer masters. Once that was done,
they were sent to the James G. Lee Record Processing center in Gardena, California, the company contracted
to cut and gold plate the master Voyager records.'
Here: http://pub-lib.jpl.nasa.gov/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-533/JPL151,%20Voyager%20Interstellar%20Record%20Collection,%20%201976-1977.pdf
no mention of the process or individuals involved.
Hey Tape
That is all quite interesting I have not come across this PDF before Thank you I did mention this particular cut in a prior post of mine There was no reason to gold plate the cut really as copper on its own would be fine But it does change quite a bit as it gets old, the blanks that is they get hard to cut It gets a crystaline type of structure after a few weeks out of the plating bath So they need to be cut "fresh" once they cut left alone or a master has been pulled off them it matters not they will outlast anything else known
This was and is still well known in the trade, so they cut the copper fresh
The gold plating in so far as preserving the recorded information is concerned is not necessary at all but it is a NASA project so they went to the very extremes so as to make sure it does stay in a perfect state I would guess gold does not corrode copper could get corroded ie "rusty" in certain environment It gets a greenish colour on it I have had some copper cuts that did have some corrosion on them but they played surprisingly well after a good wash and a dry they where around 20 years old or may be more and ceratinly not looked after, laying around a plating shop they where
Cheers
That is all quite interesting I have not come across this PDF before Thank you I did mention this particular cut in a prior post of mine There was no reason to gold plate the cut really as copper on its own would be fine But it does change quite a bit as it gets old, the blanks that is they get hard to cut It gets a crystaline type of structure after a few weeks out of the plating bath So they need to be cut "fresh" once they cut left alone or a master has been pulled off them it matters not they will outlast anything else known
This was and is still well known in the trade, so they cut the copper fresh
The gold plating in so far as preserving the recorded information is concerned is not necessary at all but it is a NASA project so they went to the very extremes so as to make sure it does stay in a perfect state I would guess gold does not corrode copper could get corroded ie "rusty" in certain environment It gets a greenish colour on it I have had some copper cuts that did have some corrosion on them but they played surprisingly well after a good wash and a dry they where around 20 years old or may be more and ceratinly not looked after, laying around a plating shop they where
Cheers
"The Vinyl Truth"
Chris
Chris
Hi, I look my name.
This is my first post, and I am utterly confused at the 20 smileys winking at me on the left. But the information circulating here is so interesting that I thought I might give some in exchange for what I have learnt.
The way I read the JPL document, it says:
"Part of the collection consists of 8 14 inch instantaneous metal core master recording disks mounted in an aluminum shipping container. The records are made of a lacquer vinyl exterior with a copper-plated interior. The outside of the aluminum container contains shipping labels from various companies. Pyral S.A., a corporation in Creteil, France had forwarded the blank records to the JVC Cutting Center, Inc. in Boulder, Colorado who was contracted by CBS Records to cut the lacquer masters. Once that was done, they were sent to the James G. Lee Record Processing center in Gardena, California, the company contracted to cut and gold plate the master Voyager records. Once the process was completed, the 8 vinyl records were placed back into the original container and forwarded to JPL. Since a suitable device is not currently available, these recordings cannot be played back in the Archives."
This is a typical general purpose archivist's view of things. Taking it from the top, it seems that the archivist thinks that the colour of what is obviously (to you and me) a lacquer record comes from copper plating the aluminum disc. Why they chose to cut on Pyral instead of Audiodisc is beyond me (this is so late that Audiodisc had developed their own and were no longer dependent on Pyral (Pyrolac, as it was then) technology and knowhow. The way it is explained, it seems that lacquer records were gold plated and used, and that the Voyager record is not solid metal at all. And if one was mounted on the Voyager, how come there are still 8 left in the container? And why are they suddenly vinyl records? The "suitable device" is what we call a gramophone, but obviously it must cater for 14".
When I said 'archivist', I did not mean to be rude; there are dedicated audio archivists, and they would never write the description like this.
If you want to flame me, remember that cellulose nitrate is dangerous.
This is my first post, and I am utterly confused at the 20 smileys winking at me on the left. But the information circulating here is so interesting that I thought I might give some in exchange for what I have learnt.
The way I read the JPL document, it says:
"Part of the collection consists of 8 14 inch instantaneous metal core master recording disks mounted in an aluminum shipping container. The records are made of a lacquer vinyl exterior with a copper-plated interior. The outside of the aluminum container contains shipping labels from various companies. Pyral S.A., a corporation in Creteil, France had forwarded the blank records to the JVC Cutting Center, Inc. in Boulder, Colorado who was contracted by CBS Records to cut the lacquer masters. Once that was done, they were sent to the James G. Lee Record Processing center in Gardena, California, the company contracted to cut and gold plate the master Voyager records. Once the process was completed, the 8 vinyl records were placed back into the original container and forwarded to JPL. Since a suitable device is not currently available, these recordings cannot be played back in the Archives."
This is a typical general purpose archivist's view of things. Taking it from the top, it seems that the archivist thinks that the colour of what is obviously (to you and me) a lacquer record comes from copper plating the aluminum disc. Why they chose to cut on Pyral instead of Audiodisc is beyond me (this is so late that Audiodisc had developed their own and were no longer dependent on Pyral (Pyrolac, as it was then) technology and knowhow. The way it is explained, it seems that lacquer records were gold plated and used, and that the Voyager record is not solid metal at all. And if one was mounted on the Voyager, how come there are still 8 left in the container? And why are they suddenly vinyl records? The "suitable device" is what we call a gramophone, but obviously it must cater for 14".
When I said 'archivist', I did not mean to be rude; there are dedicated audio archivists, and they would never write the description like this.
If you want to flame me, remember that cellulose nitrate is dangerous.
Greybeard
Welcome aboard
Nice to have you chiping in The forum can certainly use your many years of know how as wel as the tid bits you have gathered over the years The young and older guys here that use some early machines would appreciate your input as well
Enjoy your stay
Cheers
Nice to have you chiping in The forum can certainly use your many years of know how as wel as the tid bits you have gathered over the years The young and older guys here that use some early machines would appreciate your input as well
Enjoy your stay
Cheers
"The Vinyl Truth"
Chris
Chris
As I understand it, the two records onboard the voyager spacecrafts are indeed solid gold plated copper - the ones in the archive must be vinyl copies.
The records also have 'A pure sample of uranium-238 was electroplated on the cover for dating purposes. the half-life of uranium-238 is 4.51 billion years. '
The records also have 'A pure sample of uranium-238 was electroplated on the cover for dating purposes. the half-life of uranium-238 is 4.51 billion years. '
I ahve also submitted the record into Discogs:
http://www.discogs.com/Various-Voyager-Golden-Record-The-Sounds-From-Earth/release/1852452
a rare item!
http://www.discogs.com/Various-Voyager-Golden-Record-The-Sounds-From-Earth/release/1852452
a rare item!
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concretecowboy71
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subkontrabob
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greybeard wrote: If you want to flame me, remember that cellulose nitrate is dangerous.
great pun! I have a video on this subject that I just might post someday.....My guess is that the mentioned 8 discs are just archival copies on lacquers. The text says clearly that the actual disc that is on Voyager, is a Copper disc with gold plating:
"The Voyager message is carried by a 12 inch gold-plated copper disk "
The confusion probably starts with the "protective aluminum case".
The archive probably has something like this:
Unfortunately I don't have a picture of THAT:
"Each record was encased in a protective aluminum jacket, together with a cartridge and a needle.
Instructions, in symbolic language, explain the origin of the spacecraft and indicate how the record is to be
played. "
cheers
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Aussie0zborn
- Posts: 1868
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the sounds of earth
The Unbreakable Microgrooves!
Actually, the real problem with sending an iPod into space is Solar Radiation. Space is filled with it. And, without radiation shielding most microchips would get zapped.
Out in space beyond the van allen belts that protect the earth, there is a large amount of radiation. Radiation will zap microchips (like what an elecro magnetic pulse can do). I have a friend who used to work for Jet Propulsion Labs out west. He would test the tolerances of chips made for space vehicles under radiation.
The chips were made especially for space and were sealed in shielding. So, the real problem with an iPod in space is that either the data would become corrupt or the chips that have the OS or both. It would get to the aliens and it wouldn't work and they would think we were quite dumb.
Out in space beyond the van allen belts that protect the earth, there is a large amount of radiation. Radiation will zap microchips (like what an elecro magnetic pulse can do). I have a friend who used to work for Jet Propulsion Labs out west. He would test the tolerances of chips made for space vehicles under radiation.
The chips were made especially for space and were sealed in shielding. So, the real problem with an iPod in space is that either the data would become corrupt or the chips that have the OS or both. It would get to the aliens and it wouldn't work and they would think we were quite dumb.
Voyager
Well lets be realistic back in the 70's there was not much around in so far as recording sound
The choice was quie limited Cutting on copper was quite unique any way therefore the job was given to experts in the field Keep in mind that DMM did not appear as a viable commercial process until some years later around the 6-7 years later with the Neumann 80
Not that it was unknown Emmille cut his first records as we know them on Zinc or tinplate coated with cocoa butter
Now since it takes some 10 years of NASA planing for such a project it was certainly a task and a half to conceive as well as execute such a Time capsule for the possibility that someone or some other species human like would find it in outer space
Since it will be another 44K odd years to get to what we think to be another galaxy / constelation whatever it becomes very much ancient history
We are struggling so as to decipher stuff thats been around us here on earth for less that 2.5 K years ie Linear A some Mayan alphabets have just been given us a glmpse Aztec as well as Inca ceremonial records have only been looked at in the last 30 odd years if that Linear B only in the last 50 years and Egyptian hieroglyphics less than 120 years
So assuming that these intelligent beings are on par with us here they will have a struggle as well no doubt regardless of what has been given on these records as cues
Unfortunetelly common culture confuses Hollywood hype with reality which is well promoted by vested interest's there
So confusion as well as ignorance reigns supreme, if we add this to the scheme of things it is hard to imagine that these pople/beings would have any better idea about us as we have of our predecessors at less than 5-6 K years let alone 44 k on top of the 35 odd since it has left our planet which is insignificant within the timeframe as well as the span of ones life
Now someone did make a comment about Mr R Hubbard who turned science fiction into a multi billion dollar religious enterprise while he was having so much fun being a captain on a large boat fully manned with young girls in skimpy uniforms running around at his beg and call doing his bidding as well as a cast of hundreds around the world collecting funds converting disciples building or acquiring property wonderfull stuff and all about at the same time
His speaches are there on copper for posterity as well
I wonder who would be looking/listening to them in 100 years
What a thought
Cheers
Cheers
The choice was quie limited Cutting on copper was quite unique any way therefore the job was given to experts in the field Keep in mind that DMM did not appear as a viable commercial process until some years later around the 6-7 years later with the Neumann 80
Not that it was unknown Emmille cut his first records as we know them on Zinc or tinplate coated with cocoa butter
Now since it takes some 10 years of NASA planing for such a project it was certainly a task and a half to conceive as well as execute such a Time capsule for the possibility that someone or some other species human like would find it in outer space
Since it will be another 44K odd years to get to what we think to be another galaxy / constelation whatever it becomes very much ancient history
We are struggling so as to decipher stuff thats been around us here on earth for less that 2.5 K years ie Linear A some Mayan alphabets have just been given us a glmpse Aztec as well as Inca ceremonial records have only been looked at in the last 30 odd years if that Linear B only in the last 50 years and Egyptian hieroglyphics less than 120 years
So assuming that these intelligent beings are on par with us here they will have a struggle as well no doubt regardless of what has been given on these records as cues
Unfortunetelly common culture confuses Hollywood hype with reality which is well promoted by vested interest's there
So confusion as well as ignorance reigns supreme, if we add this to the scheme of things it is hard to imagine that these pople/beings would have any better idea about us as we have of our predecessors at less than 5-6 K years let alone 44 k on top of the 35 odd since it has left our planet which is insignificant within the timeframe as well as the span of ones life
Now someone did make a comment about Mr R Hubbard who turned science fiction into a multi billion dollar religious enterprise while he was having so much fun being a captain on a large boat fully manned with young girls in skimpy uniforms running around at his beg and call doing his bidding as well as a cast of hundreds around the world collecting funds converting disciples building or acquiring property wonderfull stuff and all about at the same time
His speaches are there on copper for posterity as well
I wonder who would be looking/listening to them in 100 years
What a thought
Cheers
Cheers
"The Vinyl Truth"
Chris
Chris
Mossboss, what makes you think that they physically cut this copper record at 16 2/3 rpm? The whole Pyral business and "forwarded the blank records to the JVC Cutting Center, Inc. in Boulder, Colorado who was contracted by CBS Records to cut the lacquer masters. Once that was done, they were sent to the James G. Lee Record Processing center in Gardena, California, the company contracted to cut and gold plate the master Voyager records" to me indicates that the well-known James G. Lee people made a mother to send into outer space. Images of the records in question exist, and I seem to remember that the label on the metal record was actually etched, like the early Edison Diamond Disc (which was obviously made in a press, so it was the negative that carried the etching - including a half-tone image of Edison himself).
By the way, Emile Berliner did not cut his zinc sheets but etched them after having scratched through to the naked metal surface through his layer of beeswax. Sometimes he ran a stylus through the etched groove to smoothen it a bit. There are reports that Edison recorded hill-and-dale on iron and in lead, but that was 10 years before Berliner (who was always lateral).
Cut on!, best wishes.
By the way, Emile Berliner did not cut his zinc sheets but etched them after having scratched through to the naked metal surface through his layer of beeswax. Sometimes he ran a stylus through the etched groove to smoothen it a bit. There are reports that Edison recorded hill-and-dale on iron and in lead, but that was 10 years before Berliner (who was always lateral).
Cut on!, best wishes.
Hey Greybeard
You may be correct on this It is a long time ago since I had the memory bank storing this file It may have been corrupted so as I did not do a back-up I will use your file so as to update mine
It seems that it was plated in copper than from the negatives so the mother went out in nether land Is that right
I would have thought that Emille running the stylus after the scratching on the butter coating would be akin to "cutting" No?
Lets say this is a matter of opinion I suppose
The case of Pyral blanks is interesting as well I suppose since Audio Devices produced under licence to them One would go to the source for blanks
In Australia at the time a local manufacturer located in Melbourne was the supplier of blanks apart from what was imported by all and sundry including some from Rhone Pullenc Audio Devices Pyral Presto Wilcox Grey as well as a few other brands not forgetting Transco as well as Apollo in later years
I seem to have metal boxes from most of them Still usable after all these years
The devil is in the details Hey
Cheers
You may be correct on this It is a long time ago since I had the memory bank storing this file It may have been corrupted so as I did not do a back-up I will use your file so as to update mine
It seems that it was plated in copper than from the negatives so the mother went out in nether land Is that right
I would have thought that Emille running the stylus after the scratching on the butter coating would be akin to "cutting" No?
Lets say this is a matter of opinion I suppose
The case of Pyral blanks is interesting as well I suppose since Audio Devices produced under licence to them One would go to the source for blanks
In Australia at the time a local manufacturer located in Melbourne was the supplier of blanks apart from what was imported by all and sundry including some from Rhone Pullenc Audio Devices Pyral Presto Wilcox Grey as well as a few other brands not forgetting Transco as well as Apollo in later years
I seem to have metal boxes from most of them Still usable after all these years
The devil is in the details Hey
Cheers
"The Vinyl Truth"
Chris
Chris
Hey Mossboss
I agree with you that the choice of supplier is very strange. It was the US of A, a prestigious national project put in the hands of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, and they go and get an alien supplier! I do not doubt the archivist, he/she may not know much about sound recording but he/she can read manifestos and markings on the boxes. I cannot believe they became convinced that Pyral was better for 16 2/3 rpm than any US brand. However, it seems it was not the JPL that received the discs from France, it was the JVC cutting centre that had been commissioned by CBS -- now I find that line of communication strange as well. Were they all friends in those days? This part of history need clearing up before everybody who might know disappears.
Let your facets burnish!, best wishes
I agree with you that the choice of supplier is very strange. It was the US of A, a prestigious national project put in the hands of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, and they go and get an alien supplier! I do not doubt the archivist, he/she may not know much about sound recording but he/she can read manifestos and markings on the boxes. I cannot believe they became convinced that Pyral was better for 16 2/3 rpm than any US brand. However, it seems it was not the JPL that received the discs from France, it was the JVC cutting centre that had been commissioned by CBS -- now I find that line of communication strange as well. Were they all friends in those days? This part of history need clearing up before everybody who might know disappears.
Let your facets burnish!, best wishes
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Steve E.
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I'm unclear on the total running time of the disc. It contained a full HOUR of Ann Druyan's brainwaves???? At the expense of other, more concrete information? That seems a bit indulgent and unlikely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents_of_the_Voyager_Golden_Record#Brainwaves
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents_of_the_Voyager_Golden_Record#Brainwaves
Hi Steve,
I belive the bandwidth of required to reproduce the brainwaves is very low (< 100 hz), so I'm guessing they were able to compress the 1 hour of information to a much shorter interval on the recording. Who knows it it would be of any use.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroencephalography
Mark
I belive the bandwidth of required to reproduce the brainwaves is very low (< 100 hz), so I'm guessing they were able to compress the 1 hour of information to a much shorter interval on the recording. Who knows it it would be of any use.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroencephalography
Mark
I submitted the record into discogs: http://www.discogs.com/Various-Voyager-Golden-Record-The-Sounds-From-Earth/release/1852452
based on the 'tracklist' given on NASA's website.
They do not list a proper tracklist, only the content.
My guess is that the brainwave recording are in compressed data form in the 'data track' on the record, that also contains pictures.
It would take up far too much physical space on the record in audio form, and are not mentioned by NASA.
Btw: on Discogs 5 people claim to own the record:-)
based on the 'tracklist' given on NASA's website.
They do not list a proper tracklist, only the content.
My guess is that the brainwave recording are in compressed data form in the 'data track' on the record, that also contains pictures.
It would take up far too much physical space on the record in audio form, and are not mentioned by NASA.
Btw: on Discogs 5 people claim to own the record:-)