78 cutting styli???

[Steve E.]

Anyone making them? The correct angle for cutting 78's?

[cd4cutter]

Depends on whether you want to replicate the old acoustic 78 groove geometry or intend for your new cuts to be pressed in vinyl and playable with modern pickups. Nobody presses shellac anymore (well, maybe in India), so you just about have to have your records pressed in vinyl. So you can use a conventional LP recording stylus. It makes the tip of the groove a little sharper than the old 78 cuts of the 1950s, but that's not a problem when played with modern pickups. All you have to do is cut a little wider groove, about 3.5 to 5 mils or so. Should be no problem with cutting lacquer.

[Doug6N]

I got a couple of NOS 78 from Len at History Of Recorded Sound. I to wonder if any new ones are made. Somehow I doubt it.

Doug

[Steve E.]

yeah, I want to play 'em on old, old machines, that's why I am asking.

[cd4cutter]

Steve, depending on how old your machine is, you may not be able to get there from here. Old acoustic reproducers (no electrical amplification, such as Victors and Victrolas) used steel or tungsten wire needles. These needles were DESIGNED to wear into the groove shape very quickly to distribute their huge tracking force (about 120 grams) across a broad contact surface area and thereby reduce record wear. In order to facilitate this needle wear, the shellac record compound contained an abrasive to wear the needle. Consequently, the needle was worn out with a SINGLE side of play. Yes, you should change your steel needles in your Victrola with EVERY SIDE you play. If you try to play a vinyl record on one of these players you'll gouge the bejeezus out of the record in one play. Even the first electronic players made in the late 1920s used similarly high tracking forces and required steel or tungsten needles playing shellac records with abrasive in them. It wasn't until the late 1930s that "featherweight" (haha) crystal cartridges came into use and the early plastic record formulations (not necessarily vinyl) became available. But these cartridges still tracked at about 30 grams and still wore out the new plastic records pretty fast. All in all, it was a bad time for plastic records. Things didn't improve much until the first good GE variable reluctance cartridges came out around 1946. These tracked at around 12 grams or so and didn't tear up vinyl records so badly.

So, long story short, trying to play modern vinyl pressings on a player older than say the post WWII period is a bad idea. But playing a vinyl 78 with a modern cartridge that tracks at 5 grams or less is just groovy. The groove shape doesn't matter much in either case.

[Steve E.]

Understood, though it's always good to put that info in print again. Thanks!

I'm talking about acetate, not vinyl, though that's even more prone to wear, of course.

I am actually able to play acetates on my early 1930's portable Victrola as long as I use a cactus needle. Yes, they wear a bit each time, but that's OK for my particular project. Len H recommends attaching a spring to the top of the reproducer to take some of the weight off.

Anyway, I just liked the idea, but I guess it doesn't matter too much.

[MEGAMIKE]

stellite...ian not sure if that is correct spelling but that was used for cutting 78s..it is some sort of alloy, il try to find link i think its lathe cut history page ??

[emorritt]

Yes stellite is correct. It's an alloy that was used along with steel and sapphire for cutting stylii for many years. Steel being the least desirable choice as it wears quickly and cuts a somewhat noisy groove even when new, stellite lasted somewhat longer and was a fairly good and less expensive substitute for sapphire, and sapphire was the longest lasting material. Not sure why they're using synthetic ruby now as it doesn't seem to be any cheaper or desirable than sapphire. The material used for the cutting stylus didn't govern what speed recording was made - the 78 stylii were ground to a different angle than modern microgroove stylii. You could make a microgroove stellite cutter; it just wouldn't last as long as a jewel.