STANTON ST150 & OTHER SUPER OEM TT FOR CUTTING WITH EXAMPLES

[Gus]

Many members on this forum asks if the Stanton ST-150 and other models who produced by the same company in china"Hanpin" is good for cutting or embossing instead the Technics sl-1200 mkii?
the sort answer is NO. These TT have a good enough torque of 4.5 kgf·cm but does not have balanced platter.Super OEM TT usually have from 0.10 to 0.15 run-out that means if you cut or embossing, on the one side of the diameter of PVC or P.C. the head will cut deeper grooves and on the other side will cut shallower grooves.
The results is surface noise and oscillation of high frequencies
Listen an embossed sound file with STANTON ST-150

Digital File
http://lathetrolls.com/download/file.php?id=4454

Embossed File on STANTON ST-150
http://lathetrolls.com/download/file.php?id=4455


Technics MK2 out of the box have 1.5 kgf·cm torque that means if the needle of cutterhead touch the pvc or polycarbonate the platter will slowdown,also another bad thing on Technics is the quartz lock who tries to keep the rotation at the correct speed, the result will be wobble tones on guitar or synths, strings, etc on your cuts The good thing on MK2 is the really well balanced platter with 0.2 run-out out of the box who not cause significantly issues on your cuts.

Just a quick and dirty sound file embossed with Technics MKII

MKII.mp3

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////SUPER OEM TT VS TECHNICS\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
TORQUE.....................................................................4.5 kg/cm......1.5 kg/cm
BALANCED PLATTER....................................................NO..................YES
RUN-OUT...................................................................0.10..................0.2
QUARTZ LOCK (DISABLE)...........................................YES..................NO
HALF SPEED MASTERING............................................YES..................NO
78 R.P.M.....................................................................YES..................NO

Q. So, who is the winner?
A. For me the winner is the STANTON BUT will you need an experienced mechanist to machining the platter from the start.

WATCH THE VIDEO

[YouTube2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIrMbRJKam8[/YouTube2]

sound file of my modified platter coming soon

SUPER OEM TT

Stanton ST/STR8-150
American Audio HTD 4.5
Citronic PD-45/45mk2
Synq XTRM1
Akiyama Acura DJ-4000
Reloop RP6000MK5
Ominitronic DD5250
Kam DDX5000
BST PRO-PR4.5
Koolsound TDJ-04
Denon VL12
Pioneer PLX-1000

if you don't know an experienced mechanist then go with TECHNICS SP-10MKII

Gus

[Gus]

[Thelurker]

I haven't seen any problems with a Technics SL1200, you just have to make sure stylus heat is correct to avoid the audio "wobble".

What about your thoughts on a Numark TTX?

[Gus]

I haven't seen any problems with a Technics SL1200, you just have to make sure stylus heat is correct to avoid the audio "wobble".

What about your thoughts on a Numark TTX?

Hi,
I don't have any experience of cutting with diamond on pvc to Technics SL1200mk2 but if you are embossing will you need to add more weight to the cutterhead this extra weight it can work, on stress the platter of Technics.But i feel for the same reason Souri of Vinyl Recorder sell for Technics owners his presiscion platter and external high torque motor to drive the platter of Technics SL1200 MKII.
As you can see Ciuens for his ZEZ lathe uses NUMARK TTX but i don't have any cutting or embossing experience with that too.

http://lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5963&p=37091&hilit=numark+ttx#p37091

Try to use the search button on this forum with the words NUMARK TTX maybe will you find comments about that by other members.

Regards!

[Thelurker]

Thanks for reply. I'm only familiar with diamond cutting.

[SueDenim]

Personally, I don't think we can class the upcoming Denon VL12 Prime in the same 'OEM' bracket as most of the other Hanpin-manufactured models.
Naturally there are many questions that will need answering when it comes to using the Denon VL12 Prime to cut or emboss, but I'm looking forward to seeing how this deck stacks up

[Gus]

Personally, I don't think we can class the upcoming Denon VL12 Prime in the same 'OEM' bracket as most of the other Hanpin-manufactured models.
Naturally there are many questions that will need answering when it comes to using the Denon VL12 Prime to cut or emboss, but I'm looking forward to seeing how this deck stacks up

Hi!
Denon VL12 is a Hanpin made turntable and is the first model who not writes measurements of wow & flutter in their specifications.

[SueDenim]

Hmm... that's very odd then Gus as that is not what Denon were telling everyone at NAMM 2017!
Perhaps the Prime is a new upgraded version of the VL12?

An excerpt from the DJ Worx review:
"Denon DJ decided to buck the Hanpin trend and build their own turntable"
https://djworx.com/namm-2017-denon-dj-vl12-prime-turntable/

... and the specs (including wow & flutter) directly from the Denon product website:
http://denondj.com/vl12-prime
I especially like the reference to 'stable' torque

"PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS
Motor:
Drive: Quartz direct-drive
Starting Torque: 5 kgf/cm (instant); 3.4 kgf/cm (stable)

Starting Time: < 0.4 seconds
Braking System: Electronic

Platter:
Material: Aluminum die-cast
Diameter: 13.1” / 332 mm
Weight: 4.9 lbs. / 2.2 g

Tonearm:
Effective Length: 9.4” / 238 mm
Overhang: 1.0” / 25 mm
Offset Angle: 20.5°
Speeds: RPM: 33⅓, 45
Wow & Flutter: < 0.15%"

[SueDenim]

Having looked at the specs again, the wow & flutter seems pretty high compared with the other turntables on the market.
I wonder how much we can trust how each manufacturer came by its figures!

For example, Pioneer quote a figure of less than 0.01% for their PLX-1000 which is crazy
"Wow and Flutter: < 0.01 % (Measured by obtaining signal from built-in frequency generator of motor assembly.)"
I can't imagine it performing to those specs when under load!

[Handcutzvinyl]

I haven't seen any problems with a Technics SL1200, you just have to make sure stylus heat is correct to avoid the audio "wobble".

What about your thoughts on a Numark TTX?

what do you mean with correct stylus heating? - does the wobble/Flutter/wow occur when its to hot or not hot enough?

greetings!

[farmersplow]

...I wonder how much we can trust how each manufacturer came by its figures!...

I agree with SueDenim!
Manufacturer specifications are a guide and should at best be compared to their own brand products. You need to measure under load when cutting. The manufacturer's specifications also refer to playback. And under load, the values behave very differently.
I first tested with Numark TT500, Technics 1210 mk2 and then with Reloop RP7000MK2. All manufacturers promise high torques. (Reloop had the highest promise). Under load, the Reloop and Technics were equally good and sufficient for good quality (for me). But if the demands are higher, you need more!

[diy_cutter]

I got good results with Numark TT500 and Stanton T120, speed fluctuations are possible on the edge of 12’’ disc. The problem can be partially solved by using an additional plater weighing up to 2.5 kg, but it is important that the motor and its support bearing are in order. Otherwise, you will get constant speed fluctuations due to the feedback triggering. This sound will definitely penetrate your record. Of course, the golden mean is to use Technics SP10MKII (or SP10MKIII, if you have extra money). Now for up to 1500 dollars/euro there are very powerful servo motors or low-speed DD-motors with a torque of 10 to 25 kg/cm, but they still need to be “tamed”, programmed and connected to all the drivers, etc. A ready-made fairly powerful player wins with the presence of a tonearm, phono preamplifier and ease of control. In my opinion, all modifications of Technics such as SL-1200/1210/1500, Numark TT200 are not suitable or are suitable conditionally for cutting 7’’ (possibly 10’’). These are the ones that I personally tested, but now I use exclusively for playing/checking finished cut records with reference cartridges. This is my personal opinion. Although I know that with a diamond cutter pressure of 10-12 grams, while it is sharp, many get acceptable speed fluctuations, but they will 100% take place.