pouring and mixing your own vinyl

[next2normal]

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3960790.html pouring and mixing your own vinyl( scoll down a bit)

hi guys greetings from nz

would like to mix and make my own vinyl

is there any eco type lacquers
is there a perfect mix that is great for sound and less wear on a cutter
what about perspex
pre heating banks before cutting
whats with storing blanks in freezers
is it viable to make your own cutter


freepatentsonline---how to make real vinyl
Description:
BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

High quality monaural phonograph records containing little or no inorganic fillers have long been made of compositions comprising synthetic resins such as copolymers of vinyl chloride-vinyl acetate or polystyrene. It has also been conventional to include certain additives in small amounts in the compositions to improve the record molding process or to impart particular desirable properties to the record. Typical additives are stabilizers to inhibit decomposition of the resin during the mixing and molding operations, plasticizers to enhance the molding properties of the resin, solid antistatic agents to prevent collection of dust in the sound grooves of the record, carbon black to impart a uniform coloration and sheen to the record, and mold release agents to inhibit damage to the record when it is released from the mold.

With the advent of 2-channel stero recordings, some changes were made in certain additives such as stabilizers, but the resin systems remained essentially similar to those used in the older monaural recordings.

In the case of both the older monaural system records and the newer 2-channel stereo records, the process of compounding the ingredients is essentially the same. All of the ingredients are introduced at the same time into a mixing apparatus (usually a Banbury mixer) and thoroughly dispersed until they become a uniform mixture. Due to internal friction within the composition, during the mixing process the temperature rises to the fusion point of the mixture and the mixture is thus converted to a melt which is later either sheeted, cooled and ground into granules, or handled as a molten material in an extrusion apparatus which feeds an automatic record press.

Now, however, 4-channel stereo systems have been developed and these have placed much more stringent demands on the recording material of the phonograph record discs. The discrete 4-channel record is based upon the success of reliably reproducing signals up to 45 kHz from the recorded groove. Two-channel stereo records, on the other hand, require reproducing a signal bandwidth approaching but not exceeding 15 kHz. The higher the frequency of the actual recorded signal, the greater must be the number of recorded undulations per unit of groove length.

A 2-channel stereo groove has undulations of 2 different bandwidths molded into the opposite sloping walls of the record groove. The pickup stylus, riding in the groove, vibrates at both of these frequencies and the sound signal reproducing system separates these 2 signals and feeds them to separate amplifiers and speakers.

In a 4-channel system, 2 different fm carriers are superimposed on the groove walls in addition to the undulations required for a 2-channel system. Each of these carriers is independently frequency modulated by a signal source associated with a particular carrier.

The higher bandwidth requirement of 4-channel stereo records results in a requirement for reproducible signal density per unit of groove wall area, 3 times as great as that required for 2-channel stereo records and this requirement is superimposed upon the modulation of the basic stereo groove which already requires a reproducible bandwidth of 15 kHz. Thus, the signal density requirement in a discrete 4-channel record groove is 4 times that for a 2-channel stereo groove.

There are also other requirements for a satisfactory 4-channel stereo phonograph record that are not present, or at least not present to the same extent, in ordinary monaural or 2-channel stereo records. In the 4-channel system records, the record surface must not only have the best obtainable long-wearing properties, but the surface must also wear in a smooth manner instead of in a porous granular manner previously experienced. If the surface does not have the required wearing properties, the fm carrier modulations are degraded and very small particles of record material become broken off the groove walls.

An additional problem arises if the broken away particles of record material accumulate in the bottom of the record groove. Then the pickup stylus starts to ride higher in the groove and does not make full contact with the groove walls. When this happens, the stylus contacts a smaller area of wall, pressure on the wall becomes correspondingly greater, and record wear becomes more rapid. When record wear becomes more rapid, sound reproduction deteriorates more rapidly.

Using the older system of mixing all of the record composition ingredients together at one time, the present inventor found that he could not make commercially acceptable 4-channel stereo records, regardless of the composition variations that he tried. However, with the present invention, which includes an improved mixing process and also includes a proper selection of ingredients and proportions of ingredients, commercially acceptable 4-channel stereo records have now been achieved.

DESCRIPTION OF PREFERRED EMBODIMENTS

The ingredients of the preferred composition used in the present process are (expressed as percent by weight of the final composition):

1. 60-70% of a copolymer of vinyl chloride-vinyl acetate resin suspension or solution containing 12-16% by weight of polyvinyl acetate.

2. 26.2-36.2% of a suspension or solution type homopolymer of vinyl choride having an inherent viscosity of 0.65.

These two resin ingredients should total 96.2%.

3. 1.6% of a sulfur-free organotin salt containing about 16% tin. A suitable example is dibutyltin di (isooctyl maleate).

4. 1% of a soybean oil epoxide having a molecular weight of about 1000. A suitable commercial example is "Paraplex G-62" (Rohm and Haas Co., Philadelphia, Pa.).

5. 1.2% of a 50% by weight solution of N,N-bis(2-hydroxyethyl)-N-(3'-dodecyloxy-2'-hydroxypropyl) methylammonium methosulfate (which will hereinafter be referred to as "methylammonium methosulfate") in a 1:1 by volume isopropyl alcohol-water mixture.

6. 0.4% of an esterified montan wax such as "Hoechst Wax E".

7. 0.2% of carbon black of 181 angstroms fineness.

The ratio between the copolymer of vinyl chloride-vinyl acetate and the homopolymer of polyvinyl choride, was determined in relationship to the requirement of a long wearing surface for the record grooves and the melt viscosity of the total compound at the temperature at which the record is pressed. This results in a surface that wears in a smooth manner and not in a porous granular manner as heretofore experienced. At the same time, this ratio between the two resins produces, in conjunction with certain others of the ingredients, a melt viscosity and melt elasticity at the temperature at which the record is pressed that assures that the record grooves are filled without fault.

Two-tenths percent of carbon black is used to give the finished record the characteristic black color associated with phonograph record discs and the 181 angstrom fineness is preferred to maintain surface quietness in the groove. The specified amount of carbon black gives the characteristic black sheen appearance to the record. Other ingredients are adjusted to this amount.

One-and-two-tenths percent of the methylammonium methosulphate solution (corresponding to 0.6% of the solid in the finished record) gives the finished record surface electrical conductivity to limit its capacity to maintain a static charge that would otherwise be induced by its handling and play on a phonograph turntable. This anti-static property imparted into the record by this solution is generally advantageous inasmuch as the record does not collect dust and lint from the atmosphere and its packaging, and does not erratically and randomly discharge to the supporting structure of the pickup stylus. The use of the above mentioned anti-static agent is particularly advantageous for the discrete 4-channel record inasmuch as debris that is generated by the pickup stylus riding in the record groove is not attracted to the bottom of the groove to be compressed by the subsequent plays until its buildup interferes with full contact between the pickup stylus and the groove. Instead, the debris generated by wear of a record with anti-static properties is free to be pushed aside by the playback stylus on subsequent plays. In addition, it is free to fall from the record surface as the record is handled and is free to be brushed from the record when the record is cleaned. One-and-two-tenths percent of a 50% methylammonium methosulphate solution is the limit of the absorptive capacity of the resin. Lesser amounts are less effective in controlling static charge buildup. Greater amounts cause surface imperfections that produce noise when the record is played.

One-and-six-tenths percent of an organotin salt (resin stabilizer) is included in the compound to neutralize the generation of hydrogen chloride gas (which is produced by partial decomposition of the polyvinyl chloride resin) when the compound is pressed into a record at the normal pressing temperature. The presence of hydrogen chloride gas creates blisters and voids under the record surface and in the record surface, which cause noise when the record is played. The hydrochloric acid also etches and stains the stampers in the press. The etching and staining of the stampers then introduce imperfections in the molded record that produce noise when the record is played. If substantially less than the specified amount of organotin salt is used, generation of hydrogen chloride gas results. If more than the stated amount is used, the excess organotin salt particles are not absorbed or assimilated into the compound and become themselves the source of noise when the record is played.

One perent of epoxidized soybean oil (the plasticizer) provides a lower melt viscosity of the mixture, which reduces the internal friction of the mixture when it is pressed into a record and thereby improves the moldability by filling the groove with less compression force. Also, the epoxidized soybean oil has a stabilizing function in that it combines with the organotin salt to further limit the generation of hydrogen chloride gas. One percent has been determined as the optimum amount to be absorbed completely into the resin particles. More than 1 percent over-saturates the resin thereby producing oily splotches on the surface of the record, and the splotches result in noise on playback.

Four-tenths percent of montan wax ester is added to the compound to provide for good release of the record from the stamper. When the record is removed from the press without the lubricating effect of the montan wax ester in the compound, the grooves of the record are sometimes fractured, torn, and deformed by the removal. These faults in the groove produce noise on playback. Montan wax ester at the stated percentage is compatible with the resins and is homogenized into the surface of the record at the normal pressing temperature. If more than the stated amount of the montan wax ester is used, the excess amount is not absorbed into the surface of the record. Its presence results in non-uniformity in the surface of the record, particularly as related to the friction between the stylus and the groove. This non-uniformity produces noise when the record is played.

It has been determined that the order and sequence of mixing the ingredients together into the compound is of primary importance. By the method to be described below, the full dispersion of the ingredients throughout the total volume of the mixture, and the absorption of the ingredients by the resin particles can both be assured.

EXAMPLE

The first compounding step is that of combining the copolymer of vinyl chloride-vinyl acetate, the homopolymer of vinyl chloride and the carbon black. These ingredients are blended in an internal high intensity mixer. If the mixer is an internal mixer being operated at a speed of 800 rpm (hereinafter referred to as "initial" speed) the ingredients can be thoroughly and uniformly dispersed in 1 minute. To test for uniformity of dispersion, a sample of the mix may be taken and pressed into plaques about 1-2 mils thick. These can be visually examined under a microscope.

After thorough and uniform dispersion of the resins and the carbon black has been achieved, the mixing speed is preferably doubled (with reference to the initial speed) and the mixer is operated at this higher speed until the mixture reaches a temperature of about 115.degree.-120.degree. F. The temperature is raised to this level to swell the resin particles so that they can more readily absorb the liquid solution introduced in the next step.

In the second step of the compounding process, the speed of the mixer is preferably reduced to its initial value. The methylammonium sulfate solution is added and mixing is continued until the temperature of the mixture reaches about 125.degree.-130.degree. F. The methylammonium sulfate solution is added at this time and under these conditions because the resin particles are in their most receptive state to absorb the liquid. The rise in temperature is to prepare for the next step.

In the third step of the compounding process, the organotin salt and the soybean oil epoxide, which are both liquids, are added to the mixture, and, during the mixing, are absorbed into the resin particles. During this step, the mixer is preferably operated at twice its initial speed until the temperature of the mixture reaches about 135.degree.-140.degree. F.

Step 4 of the compounding process comprises stopping the mixer, adding the montan wax ester and then again preferably operating the mixer at twice its initial speed until the ingredients reach a temperature of about 150.degree.-155.degree. F. The mixture is also subjected to forced ventilation. The combination of the temperature and ventilation causes moisture and other volatiles to be removed from the mixture.

In step 5 of process, the contents of the mixer are discharged rapidly into a cooling apparatus where the temperature is reduced to about 100.degree. F. The cooling apparatus may, for example, be a jacketed kettle cooled with circulating water.

The sixth step is to place the cooled mixture into a Banbury mixer and run the mixer until the mixture reaches a temperature of about 310.degree. F. At this temperature the mixture ingredients fuse and become a molten mass. The melt may then be rolled into a sheet and the sheet ground into granules which are suitable for charging a molding press.

The molding compound which is made by the process which has been described has not only been found to be particularly suitable for making 4-channel stereo phonograph records but for making other playable discs where the sound groove requirements are extremely exacting. One other use for the compound is in the making of disc records which can be used to play back sight and sound programs through a conventional television set.

Records are molded in conventional manner in a compression molding press.





is it possible to cut vinyl sound tracks with a co2 laser

[cuttercollector]

Just a response to your last question. And by the way, pretty fascinating stuff. Hope you can compound your own vinyl like substance soon. Do you want to laser cut a conventional lacquer that is then plated and pressed in the usual fashion or direct laser cut thevinyl compuound? What is the minimum spot size on the laser? I know they have been able to perfect PLAYING records with a laser. I was told by a machinist friend that the resolution of high frequency detail on a conventional stereo Lp included feature size in the few micron size range. I don't know if any laser can be focused to reliably cut that small of feature.

[next2normal]

i dont know if laser can cut sound to disk,for sure,but if it can it might be a bit sharp on cut and edges need to be smoothed abit,but im only guessing,the problem might be improved by giving the disk a diluted aicd bath which would give it a light etch.
it would also be about software to do it
these co2 lasers can do photo etching at 1200 dpi
but pvc is its enermy,but harden stuff would be differnt
if they could cut sound i would be more than rapt
as these machines replecate my old trade of photoengraving with a twist

so has anyone ever cut sound with a laser with a good result
is acid etching viable (could you clean old vinyl that way to)

also what is the current best mid range set up to cut vinyl
based around kingston specs ish



both is the answer to that question,reverse the software for postive and negitive cuts,maybe
Do you want to laser cut a conventional lacquer that is then plated and pressed in the usual fashion or direct laser cut thevinyl compuound? What is the minimum spot size on the laser

[next2normal]

i dont know if laser can cut sound to disk,for sure,but if it can it might be a bit sharp on cut and edges need to be smoothed abit,but im only guessing,the problem might be improved by giving the disk a diluted aicd bath which would give it a light etch.
it would also be about software to do it
these co2 lasers can do photo etching at 1200 dpi
but pvc is its enermy,but harden stuff would be differnt
if they could cut sound i would be more than rapt
as these machines replecate my old trade of photoengraving with a twist

so has anyone ever cut sound with a laser with a good result
is acid etching viable (could you clean old vinyl that way to)

also what is the current best mid range set up to cut vinyl
based around kingston specs ish



both is the answer to that question,reverse the software for postive and negitive cuts,maybe
Do you want to laser cut a conventional lacquer that is then plated and pressed in the usual fashion or direct laser cut thevinyl compuound? What is the minimum spot size on the laser

[thomas]

Whew! Interesting to read, organotin salt, epoxidized soybean oil and montan wax ester huh? Doubting that is the version of material produced today?

Is there anyone out there who knows or used this material? The 4channel part has me mystefied. The link said this was an RCA patent.

In theory it is possible to compound vinyl.

[audiocarver]

I work for an industrial laser manufacturer. I have NEVER tried to cut audio with any of our models of lasers. The 1200dpi you are referring to is if the laser is equipped with a galvo head. The problem with the galvo head, to be used in this application, would be to maintain focus/energy density even more accurately than a normal marking application as the spherical aberration of the lens would change enough as the beam passes, I believe, to create too much inconsistency in depth of cut. The one nice thing about the galvo idea is you could simply change the working field when a larger or smaller disk is used. But then you would need software to convert an audio signal into an image and then into a marking program arranged into a disk.

I think it would be best to modulate the laser directly with the audio signal and just focus the beam in a fixed location with the laser head on some kind of gantry or axis and move the whole laser head across the disk the same way a cutter head does on a conventional lathe. In this way, I would have a spoon for height sensing, as a conventional capacitive sensor would not work on vinyl. This way the focus would be more constant with the surface of the vinyl that, as you know, is very critical for playback on a conventional turntable.

But then the problem still is, consistency of the vinyl mixture itself. If the resin is not mixed correctly or consistently, you would probably see random carbon burns in the surface of the vinyl that would be interpreted as distorted audio that could not be recovered or played back.

When I participated in the polymer-welding program at my employer this was a problem we saw on a regular basis. We were using an Nd:YAG laser with galvo head and yes; the penetration of the weld was inconsistent because of focus and the thermal dissipation of the vinyl mixture and carbon consistency. But then again, we were trying to transmit through the top layer of vinyl and letting the bottom layer absorb the energy to form the weld. We could see the level of penetration with an infrared temperature camera placed over the working field.

But the other issues are, as you have already stated, edge quality of the cut is extremely critical and I think the motion of the table and any change in focus/energy density would make for a rough edge, at least rougher than what a heated sapphire stylus could currently do. I don’t believe that spot size is an issue since a beam can be focused into the micron range of measure. Obviously, the tighter the focus the less energy would be required. But most importantly, the shape of the bottom of the cut is very critical so that the diamond playback styli could ride the groove effectively. I just do not see anyway of controlling the "V" shape at the bottom of the groove reliably with a laser to achieve the required 88 degree angle and a 0.0022 inch radius.

As you have said, you could NOT use a CO2 laser on PVC as it would release chlorine gas and poison anyone in the vicinity.

Not to mention the up front cost and cost of maintenance of such a machine versus what’s currently available. To get cuts with a laser, especially using a galvo head and with all its software, you’re looking at $30,000.00 to $50,000.00 up front for such a machine. For that kind of money you could buy a Neumann VMS 70 and be guaranteed good results comparatively speaking.

I agree, the whole idea of using a laser in place of a conventional lathe seems appealing but with all of the above limitations and all the R/D that would be required, I just think it would be best to stick with what’s available.

[JayDC]

MY 300mw red laser will melt acetate w/o going down to the metal. I don't think you would beable to modulate the laser in a way to cut a traditional record. I have a ton of experience, and use this sort of equipment. The problem is, when you scan a laser, it wants to spread out, not goto a point. I wish I could draw this out for everyone, since what I'm saying maybe hard to understand. Something like: Laser scaning looks like this, "^" a traditional stereo cutter looks like this,"V"...........

Another way, would involve using the laser to scan an image of the record, for a sort period of time to melt the image onto acetate, but the problem is the resolution, modern laser scanning equipment wouldn't beable to reproduce the detail.

Maybe to lasers set in a way that the coils on a stereo cutter are set up, but I don't think that you would beable to modulate the lasers with enuff persion to cut a traditional record.

On, the other hand I can see why a laser puckup would work very well. A laser recording head, I don't think so..

Although I am open to suggestion, and like I said, I have lasers, scanners, and a lathe so I could try someones ideas out..

I have successfull modulated sound with a laser, and used a photodiode to recieve it, but its more like PCM, and would not be suitable for a record, unless you reinvented the whole mess, since it would be a digital signal encoded on the record, and it would need to be decode with some sort of software player.. (IE: similar to the way a CD is manufactured, and played back.) But who wants to tell everyone they need an all new stereo to playback your record..

[djlithium]

How about using a mirror or lense that takes a laser beam and again focuses it to the surface of the blank and that lens or mirror is shifted by the magnetic forces of the coils in a cutting head?


Also has anyone thought about driving a cutting styli using highquality memory wire?
something like the stuff you can purchase from UnitedNuclear.com??

[djlithium]

Wait a second...
Why not just cut it PCM? But not in the groove, but in the land between.

Think about it. Cut an empty grove, but still have it driven by voltage so it does the proper banding as required for reading where music is more energetic or quieter, and instead of trying to get the music in the groove through an analog wave form, use the land between the grooves to do a PCM recording directly next to the cut groove as its recording.

Coat the record to protect the pits for ones and zeros from dirt and poof. Should work when read by a styli with a simple laser from a CD-R drive, or, even a set up where an hacktogether old mouse track ball or SPDIF optical to coaxial conversion link and a light pipe is set up.
Hell, you could run two pieces of fiber optic to a styli/cart set up, one to project light onto the land between the grooves and the other to pick up the PCM.
You could in theory cut a record up to 32bit floating point stereo using this approach and or possibly have more than one stereo pair and it would emulate the thing about vinyl cut analog, which still makes it king for DJs - the ability to see the music from the banding.

[opcode66]

Was thinking about something similar.

[Aussie0zborn]

I think its already been done.........

[opcode66]

You crack me up!!!!

This is a joke I hope you know. The device pictured is a laser based record player. It doesn't use a needle but rather a laser to read grooves.

By no means does this device burn or write or cut grooves. Nor does it attach to a computer monitor via a dodgy cable as pictured here....

Good joke though.

[mossboss]

Hey Mate
Where do you live? Have a look at the release date on it and do not be "fooled"
Cheers

[opcode66]

I live in Chicago, IL, USA.