Promising progress with Homemade shellac disks -photos incl

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Aussie_cutter
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Promising progress with Homemade shellac disks -photos incl

Post: # 22482Unread post Aussie_cutter
Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:31 am

I am interested in making shellac "dub plates" or "masters". (As an experiment, not for profit :-)

1) I used Shellac flakes that are intended for French polishing. They are available from the paint section of the hardware shop (E.g. In Australia = Bunnings). Initially I mixed in Talcum powder to "bulk" it up. I later abandoned this.

2) I melted the shellac in the microwave until it started to bubble. (Took about 1.5 minutes in my low powered microwave).

3) I then poured the molten shellac onto different "test" surfaces.

4) To remove the shellac from the surface I poured it onto I used cold water and in one instance I placed it in the freezer.

Photo 1 - Poured into a pyrex glass dish. The resulting shellac surface is like glass. The reflections are venetian blinds covering the window.
http://s14.postimage.org/pz7d2e10x/image.jpg

Photo 2 - A larger blob of shellac poured onto a rougher surface. Doesn't look very interesting.
http://s8.postimage.org/78zal5kd1/image.jpg

Some problems:
-There are too many bubbles just under the surface.
-The surface seems very hard. May be too hard to cut easily.

If anyone can make a recommendation for direct cutting shellac disc formulas please let me know!

WARNING: There are safety hazards. It smells strongly. The shellac when molten can cause burns to the skin...like hot wax. Take appropriate safety precautions. Wear protective equipment etc.

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mossboss
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Post: # 22488Unread post mossboss
Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:18 am

There is a whole thread here man on the ins and out for home made lacquers
The search button is second from the left on the first line
You be surprised, use it
Cheers
Chris

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Aussie_cutter
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Post: # 22499Unread post Aussie_cutter
Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:56 pm

Chris,

My searching (prior to posting) didn't yield any success regarding shellac experimentation. There is lots using non-shellac materials at:
https://lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?t=783.html
I'm more keen on shellac for various reasons. I'm sure "lacquer" is a better medium however my interest is in shellac.

Certainly a lot of historical youtube videos using shellac/wax but nothing more modern that I can see on anyone using shellac. A video I thought was good is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdsMb1pwJEw&feature=player_embedded
(It shows pouring "wax" into moulds at 0:32) It also shows machining these to produce a very smooth surface before "cutting".

Some thoughts I have had on reducing bubbles are:
(i) Vacuum dome such as is used for debubbling resins, plaster etc
(ii) Heating the surface with a flame. This is a technique shown in an RCA historical youtube video. (At 1:34 in, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ5PQSaDYgU )

Any formulas and techniques for "wax"/shellac master discs are greatly appreciated! There is plenty of info on formulas for shellac consumer discs but I haven't yet found much info on masters.

Henry

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Serif
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Post: # 22503Unread post Serif
Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:08 pm

Image
Last edited by Serif on Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Angus McCarthy
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Post: # 22508Unread post Angus McCarthy
Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:15 pm

I'd steer clear of trying to cut into a layer of woodworking shellac - what you want to get your hands on is Nitrocellulose lacquer. However, it'd be an interesting venture to find a shellac compound that could approximate the recipes used for the early disc pressings. We know they added all kinds of extra fillers for coloring and to grind down the playback needles, but what exactly...

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Aussie_cutter
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Post: # 22514Unread post Aussie_cutter
Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:40 am

Thanks Andrew, Angus,

Andrew, your song put me on the right track!

I did further research, looks the Stearic Acid, "metallic soap" formulations are the most likely to be worthwhile.

The wax seems similar to that used for making Edison cylinders...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edison_Records#Materials_and_process_used_to_manufacture_cylinder_records

Also

http://www.diamondcut.com/vforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=76&d=1156727848

Henry

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Aussie_cutter
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Post: # 22531Unread post Aussie_cutter
Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:17 am

I found a description where an amateur made his own recording wax cylinders. My guess is this should work for records as well.

As it is basically a soap the ingredients are readily available.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=16124

I don't know why these metallic soaps are any better than say a beeswax/Carnauba wax mix??

H

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mossboss
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Post: # 22537Unread post mossboss
Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:32 pm

Hey Cobber here is some reading for you
stop re inventing the wheel
There is a guy around Brookvale who makes a guitar lacquer
He can supply you the gung or even make it up for you slightly thicker
Spoken to the man a few times but he would not deliver to Melbourne
the rest you can find here
https://lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?t=783&highlight=made+lacquers&mforum=lathetrolls
Best with it
You should get home quality out of it
for color use Ink not dye OK!!!!!!
cheers
Chris

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JayDC
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Re: Promising progress with Homemade shellac disks -photos i

Post: # 22984Unread post JayDC
Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:24 pm

-There are too many bubbles just under the surface.

I've been watching a lot of a show called "How it's Made", and it covers many industrial processes.. based on what i've learned from the show, the solution to the problem I quoted would be to place the mold with the melted/molten shellac under vacuum pressure.. that should suck the bubbles out of the material..
generally its for reproduction.. but i like to play wif it sometimes.. :P

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Angus McCarthy
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Re: Promising progress with Homemade shellac disks -photos i

Post: # 23000Unread post Angus McCarthy
Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:20 pm

I think we had this discussion before about the vacuum chamber. It's good in theory until you realize that the lacquer solvent would start to go gaseous under low pressure and just create even worse bubbles. :|

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opcode66
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Re: Promising progress with Homemade shellac disks -photos i

Post: # 23002Unread post opcode66
Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:32 pm

It has been noted here in the past that Apollo has Positive pressure in their lacquer room. Not negative pressure.

Would vibrating the disc cause the bubbles to dissipate?
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