Home-made Acetates?

Anything goes! Inventors! Artists! Cutting edge solutions to old problems. But also non-commercial usage of record cutting. Cost- effective, cost-ineffective, nutso, brilliant, terribly fabulous and sometimes fabulously terrible ideas.

Moderators: piaptk, tragwag, Steve E., Aussie0zborn

Post Reply
User avatar
Angus McCarthy
Posts: 760
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:22 pm
Location: Bloomsburg, PA, USA

Home-made Acetates?

Post: # 17959Unread post Angus McCarthy
Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:04 am

Doing some research I came across a simple method for creating low-grade nitrocellulose lacquer - dissolve celluloid ping-pong balls in acetone! Putting this in the so crazy it might just work file I'm going to see just how horrible a surface this makes when sprayed onto something like glass plate.

This line of thinking got me wondering just how many ways have people devised to make similar recording surfaces. Somewhere on here I read about cutting onto boards coated in still-wet paint. What other ideas are out there?

User avatar
markrob
Posts: 1643
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:14 am
Location: Philadelphia Area

Post: # 17969Unread post markrob
Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:16 am

Hi,

I think I'd try a spray lacquer first.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Finishing_supplies/Finishes_and_solvents/ColorTone_Aerosol_Guitar_Lacquers/ColorTone_Black_Aerosol_Guitar_Lacquer.html

The ping pong ball method seems like a mess to me.

Mark

User avatar
blacknwhite
Posts: 483
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:57 am
Location: US

Post: # 17983Unread post blacknwhite
Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:31 pm


User avatar
Angus McCarthy
Posts: 760
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:22 pm
Location: Bloomsburg, PA, USA

Post: # 17985Unread post Angus McCarthy
Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:54 pm

Great to see the idea of a home lacquer factory has already been fleshed out (saves me the effort :lol:). I agree, spray-can lacquer would be a lot easier to keep clean.

I was thinking more along the lines of the crazy, mostly lo-fi methods people have come up with, like... melting candle wax onto an old 78 and trying to scribe into the resulting surface.

User avatar
piaptk
Posts: 1721
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:40 am
Location: Tucson, AZ
Contact:

Post: # 17996Unread post piaptk
Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:13 am

Honestly, there are enough decent lo-fi things like picnic plates, laserdiscs, cd-rs, acrylic, etc to keep me busy without melting ping pong balls for even lower-fi results.

Have you tried this method for reproducing records after you've cut one? If you can keep the airbubbles out, the sound quality is actually REALLY good.

http://www.synthgear.com/2010/diy/how-to-pirate-a-vinyl-record/

User avatar
Self-lather
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:14 am
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Contact:

Post: # 18250Unread post Self-lather
Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:29 pm

Hey Piaptk, just curious, what do you cast with? I've tried everything, and created tons of playable records, but they were always very noisy. I've tried resin, woodglue, and smoothon.

User avatar
piaptk
Posts: 1721
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:40 am
Location: Tucson, AZ
Contact:

Post: # 18289Unread post piaptk
Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:38 pm

Self-lather wrote:Hey Piaptk, just curious, what do you cast with? I've tried everything, and created tons of playable records, but they were always very noisy. I've tried resin, woodglue, and smoothon.
I used the stuff that they recommended the Smoothon OOMOO 5 or whatever. I couldn't ever get the bubbles out, but the parts that would play (breaks in the bubbles) sounded just as good as the master.

User avatar
Angus McCarthy
Posts: 760
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:22 pm
Location: Bloomsburg, PA, USA

Post: # 18293Unread post Angus McCarthy
Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:40 pm

I suppose ideally you'd want to rest the mold on some kind of gently vibrating surface to let the freshly poured resin release those bubbles.

Top of the washer during the spin cycle? (only half-kidding)

User avatar
piaptk
Posts: 1721
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:40 am
Location: Tucson, AZ
Contact:

Post: # 18302Unread post piaptk
Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:46 pm

I tried to build a rickety shake table out of a 60's hand massager, but it didn't work very well. Part of the problem for me was that I live in Washington State, so the moisture in the air is probably what is causing the bubbles. I may try it in Arizona when I go down there over Spring Break and see if I can make it happen.

User avatar
fraggle
Posts: 514
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:16 am
Location: St.Louis France

Post: # 18311Unread post fraggle
Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:22 pm

what about negative pressure?
shouldn't be so hard to get a small device which can suck out the air. let it dry and the bubbles should be out?nah? cheers

User avatar
mossboss
Posts: 2063
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:18 am
Location: Australia.

Post: # 18328Unread post mossboss
Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:31 pm

Negative pressure will accentuate the problem
The case is that the volatiles want to escape in the process they create vortices therefore bubbles
If you want no bubbles as well as a smooth finish you need to create positive pressure so as to slow down the evaporation of the solvents in the mixture so as to prevent them from boiling off to fast
As an example Acetone has a boiling point of 53 C and a flash point of -20 C so it will evaporate rather rapidly out of the mixture
Other solvents which are in the mixture will do the same according to their particular chemical characteristics
As a general rule the higher temperature solvent in the mixture the slower the drying process as a consequence of course the smoother the end result
So it is a case of looking at the ingredients of the formulation on the label before hand so as to experiment according to the boiling point of the solvents contained
Regardless a positive pressure is a definite requirement That has to be greater than atmospheric pressure in the case of making lacquers or moulding of records etc
Cheers
Chris

User avatar
fraggle
Posts: 514
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:16 am
Location: St.Louis France

Post: # 18332Unread post fraggle
Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:31 am

ok interesting. shouldn't be a problem to do this as well if this guys is really interested in this:)cheers

User avatar
Angus McCarthy
Posts: 760
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:22 pm
Location: Bloomsburg, PA, USA

Post: # 18355Unread post Angus McCarthy
Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:36 pm

Like carbonation in a soda bottle. I see. :idea:

User avatar
ArchaicRecords
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:36 pm
Location: USA: Lexington, KY

Post: # 18384Unread post ArchaicRecords
Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:30 am

I've got metal 45-RPM negative stamper records and was wondering what material I could use to create records from them DIY style. I now realize that maybe wood glue would work, as it is more likely to be peeled off the metal once it dries.

I had tried Smoothon but it stuck to the metal like permanent glue. Now that this has happened, do you know if the metal could be heated in order the peel the smoothon away, or is it damaged permanently?

Apparently, the Smoothon can only be peeled from particular material - vinyl, but not metal. Nobody warned about this.... but I guess nobody else ever knew or tried it.

That's why it's called Experimenter's Forum. Indeed!
archaicrecords.com

User avatar
Self-lather
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:14 am
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Contact:

Post: # 18598Unread post Self-lather
Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:23 pm

ArchaicRecords wrote:I've got metal 45-RPM negative stamper records and was wondering what material I could use to create records from them DIY style. I now realize that maybe wood glue would work, as it is more likely to be peeled off the metal once it dries.

I had tried Smoothon but it stuck to the metal like permanent glue. Now that this has happened, do you know if the metal could be heated in order the peel the smoothon away, or is it damaged permanently?

Apparently, the Smoothon can only be peeled from particular material - vinyl, but not metal. Nobody warned about this.... but I guess nobody else ever knew or tried it.

That's why it's called Experimenter's Forum. Indeed!
Hey, I've actually had luck with smoothon on a metal stamper. It was still noisey, but playable. Which variety of smoothon did you use? I was trying the white fast drying stuff.

-Thomas

User avatar
audadvnc
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:48 pm
Location: Minneapolis MN

Post: # 18780Unread post audadvnc
Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:12 pm

As for providing pressure/negative pressure, you could take a leaf from the vacuum-forming artisans and create a vacuum table out of one of those laundry storage vacuum bags (I saw some in Menard's just last night). Open up the storage bag with the mold frame inside, pour in the materials, place a piece of heavy cloth like burlap or pellon over the rubber to facilitate air transfer, zip it up and attach a vacuum hose. Ffffft! the bag is pressed by air pressure and any air bubbles are sucked out of the grooves, replaced by latex.

I'm considering trying something like this (and give a demonstration) for the Art-a-Whirl art fair they're holding this May in Minneapolis.

Post Reply