Technics prototype hype: Grand Class SL-1200GAE

[Sillitoe]

JP Jones posted a pic of the 15 pole sp02 motor in the "you wanna innovate..." thread that you linked to above.
I posted a link to pics of SP10mk3 motors with 15 poles in that thread too.

Cheers

[JPJones]

The specs are also in the picture I posted. The stator of the SP-02 in that picture looks identical to that in the MK3, though the FG coil and position detection coils/rotor appear to be below the rotor due to the beefed up bearing.

[Sillitoe]

So those specs seem to say that the SP02 has 28kg/cm torque. Wow

I'd assume that this new 1200 won't be anywhere near that hahaha.

[JPJones]

Just a touch more than the 16kg-cm of the MK3 The 0.007% @33 W&F spec seems rather impressive as well, though I've no reference for how other cutting motors spec. On my MK3 I'm at the floor of the measurement at 0.02% JIS.

Taking a second look the position detection coils are in the same place.

[sakuszi]

Motor https://youtu.be/gQoXsvRsLJA

[Steve E.]

I'm no expert in this stuff, but does that video imply 8-poles?

[Steve E.]

OK!! I got a call from the US Business Development Manager of USTechnics today. The trick was sending him an email from the Technics site.

(My prior attempt to reach a person using Panasonic's customer service line had been horrible---don't even try it!! They don't even know Technics exists!)

It sounds like the SL-1200GAE and the SL-1200G will have similar specs and similar price tags. The GAE is a special limited-edition collectible thing. It has a better suspension (which might be useful), a tonearm made of better materials, etc etc.

He had limited knowledge of the specs as of now. More will be revealed down the line. He's getting most of his info from Germany, which seems to be driving the whole show.

He has some literature which seemed to indicate that the SL-1200G surpasses aspects of the SL-1200 mk 2. It doesn't sound like they are thinking about the SP-10 mk 3. They are oriented towards some hybrid of an audiophile market and a DJ market. I expressed my concern that they were creating something that was neither here nor there, and it sounded like he heard me. It also sounds like his influence on such decision-making is unfortunately limited.

It sounded like he was pretty much hearing for the very first time that there would be a market for a turntable that would work with lathe systems like Souri's Vinylrecorder, and with the various other projects in development here. (Is there good video of someone doing this? It would be great to be able to show him what we are talking about.)

It couldn't hurt for them to hear more of our voices.

http://www.technics.com/us/support/contact.html

This might especially be the job for our German-speakers:
http://www.technics.com/de/support/kontakt.html

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Anyway, here's what he emailed me after we spoke:

**********

Thank you for your interest in our new SL-1200GAE turntable. Our anticipated delivery date to dealers will begin this Summer. There will be only 1200 units of this Limited Edition model available globally after which we will move to SL-1200G model (probably for Winter delivery) . Both have a retail price of $4,000. Please see attachment.

Here is a link to our website where you can find more information about the turntable:

http://www.technics.com/global/introduction/hifi-direct-drive-turntable-system-sl-1200gae/

Here is a link to our existing Technics dealer network: http://www.technics.com/us/where-to-buy/

technics SL-1200GAE.jpg

[Sillitoe]

Fantastic work Steve!!!

That is a bit of a pity... I guess we will see what happens.

[sakuszi]

OK!! I got a call from the US Business Development Manager of USTechnics today. The trick was sending him an email from the Technics site.

A beautiful answer! Thank you !
I think that, as usual Technics bent the other way. Panasonic does NOT count now with potential customers, precision times are long gone, all the products developed in Japan are carried out in China, as a big risk to build factories, frequent tectonic movements, at least 2 times a month vibrations of the earth, but they are small. Manufacturers do not risk.
I have photos Technics MK3 engine, these are but different worlds. The latest engine is no invention, once had a hard disk, an old and was in the very same engine.

[Steve E.]

sakuszi, Is that the SP-10 Mk 3? Mk 3 of which model?

[Steve E.]

I sent him an email with links to tragwag using an SP-10 Mk 2 with a vinylrecorder, and to the Sillitoe Lathes thread.

http://www.lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?t=5656&p=34977

http://www.lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5645&hilit=sp10

[Sillitoe]

Thanks Steve!!!
You're the man

[sakuszi]

sakuszi, Is that the SP-10 Mk 3? Mk 3 of which model?

Yes, it is SP10 MKIII below in the photo is the engine for the German recorder, you will see the engine is identical, but the power supply, the controller is much larger and with housing professional. They could make the engine order for the Germans 1979 years. Probably nothing else has been produced since the turntable SP10 MKIII was made exclusively for radio, was anxious to quickly start and stop the turntable, and the listener does not notice the difference in start / stop. SP10 MKII was the world's first quartz-controlled motor with very high torque, publicity for the company Technics 1970 turntable did precisely this SP10

[JPJones]

Steve E., you're welcome to stop by if you'd like to get hands-on with a MK3.

[Steve E.]

JPJones, I'd love that!

OK, Technics sent me a printed-out package of specs. Has anyone posted this yet? I started typing it, then found it online. (I like copying these things into the threads locally, because the internet is fickle:

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2016/01/theres-a-new-technics-sl-1200-coming-officially/


Grand Class SL-1200GAE

Coreless Direct Drive Motor

Conventional analogue turntables have problems with degradation in sound quality caused by factors such as minute speed vibration during rotation and rotation irregularity called “cogging.” In the SL-1200GAE, the use of a newly developed coreless direct-drive motor with no iron core eliminates cogging. Also, the twin-rotor construction reduces the bearing load while maintaining high torque, and also reduces minute vibration during rotation. These factors enable reproduction of the warm, exquisitely detailed sound etched on analogue records.

High-Precision Motor Control Technology

The application of motor control technology developed for Blu-ray devices, and switching the drive mode depending on the operational status of the motor achieve a high starting torque and high speed stability.

High-Quality Terminals

The use of brass-milled and gold-plated phono terminals and ground terminals prevents degradation in sound quality while enabling the easy attaching and detaching of cables. Also theuse of metal shielding construction inside the case reduces the effects of external noise.

High-level Balance Adjustment

When the weight distribution of the turntable is uneven, excess vibration or noise occurs during rotation, which causes degradation in sound quality. Therefore, the balance of the turntable is adjusted at the factory by using specialised high-precision balance adjustment equipment for each and every item after the turntable is assembled. Turntables that have undergone adjustment are labelled with a sticker reading “BALANCED” to indicate that adjustment has been done.

Three-layered Turntable Platter

The turntable has a three-layered construction with a rigidly combined brass and aluminium diecast platter. With a deadening rubber covering its entire rear surface to eliminate unnecessary resonance, thereby achieving high rigidity and vibration damping. This delivers smooth rotational stability and inertial mass surpassing the SP-10MK2, the direct-drive turntable standard used by broadcast stations worldwide, as well as having more than twice the inertial mass of the SL-1200MK5.

Four-layered Cabinet Construction

A hairline-processed, 10-mm-thick top panel of immaculate aluminium has been added to the previous three-layered construction of aluminium diecast, BMC, and heavyweight-class rubber on the SL-1200MK5. This four-layered construction combines high rigidity with a high quality finish and feel.

High Sensitive Tonearm

The tonearm employs lightweight magnesium which has a high damping effect, with cold drawing improving the characteristics of the material and achieving the high-precision required. In addition, high initial-motion sensitivity is attained by employing the traditional Technics gimbal suspension construction with horizontal rotation axis and the vertical rotation axis intersecting at a single central point, as well as high-precision bearings using a cut-processed housing.

Specification

All New Design for Redefining the Direct Drive Turntable
Twin-Rotor Surface-Facing Direct Drive Motor
Direct Drive Motor Controller
High Sensitive Tonearm
Brass-Top Turntable Platter
Insulator

Technics Definitive Design
Inherited SL-1200 Series
Heavy Aluminium Top Plate

Turntable Speeds
33 1/3 rpm, 45 rpm, 78 rpm

Variable Range Pitch
±8%, ±16%

Dimensions & Weight
W: 453 mm (17-27/32 inch) H: 170 mm (6-11/16 inch) D: 372 mm (14-21/32 inch)
Approx. 18 kg (39.7 lbs ) *Tentative *Height including dust cover

Terminal

Phono Output x 1 / SIGNAL GND x 1

[Steve E.]

This was sent as well, which is also on the Technics site:

http://www.technics.com/us/introduction/hifi-direct-drive-turntable-system-sl-1200gae/



Grand Class SL-1200GAE

Prologue

Due to the widespread use of CDs, turntable systems disappeared briefly from the market, but their warm sound quality is bringing them back. The direct-drive turntable invented by Technics is still highly acclaimed by audiophiles and DJs in the form of the SL-1200 Series, and there have been many requests to revive the turntable system. As such, we decided to develop a new system for Hi-Fi use. Here we provide an outline of our intent in this development.

Direct-drive is generally considered to be for DJ use, and belt drive is for Hi-Fi use. In the 1970s, when Technics invented direct-drive turntables, their performance and reliability were first recognised by broadcast stations. High acclaim was then received by audiophiles. The high-precision rotation and absence of S/N ratio degradation were particularly attractive to these users. The high torque and reliability of direct-drive were recognised by DJs, and direct-drive turntables became the standard in the club scene.

When developing a direct-drive motor, considerable capital investment is required for large-scale production equipment. In contrast, belt drives can be made with a little cost. Also, compared with direct-drive, belt drive was designed with the latest technology. The view remains that direct-drive is for DJ use and belt drive is for Hi-Fi use. Originally, direct-drive offered superior sound quality. If we redesign the direct-drive motor and control circuitry, we will be able to create a turntable that is superior to other systems.

Technics was also a leader in incorporating innovations, such as vibration-damping materials, cabinet construction, and insulators. Having inherited the DNA of Technics, we do not wish to merely make a replica of the SL-1200.

In other words, our intent in this development is to redefine the direct-drive turntable reference.

[sakuszi]

Sheriff. This engine has a different design, of course, is less powerful than the MK3 SP10 10kg / cm Quartz PLL, but the new generation motor 7 has a dual rotor is eliminated jerking magnetic rotor that is very important when listening to gramophone records. With a lot of costs, $ 1000 US all the money.

[JPJones]

Steve E. - I work from home, so drop me an e-mail and we can coordinate.

I've been looking in to the Technics motors more, and have learned more about BLDC motors. I've designed a replaced for the notorious MN6042 IC, and am in the process of looking at possible improvements elsewhere. To that end, the MK3 motor has 20 magnetic poles, and a 15 slot stator. Previously I had been counting "poles" as the stator windings, which is not correct. Pole pairs = 60 * drive frequency / speed. As the drive frequency is 5.5555Hz for 33.33RPM, there are 10 pole-pairs, or 20 poles.

[Sillitoe]

Ahhh, great work JPJones.
Thanks for that info.

[JPJones]

Here's some info on the upgrade/replacement I designed for the MN6042: http://www.lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6351