That's EXACTLY what I have been thinking.mossboss wrote:On another point we are not doing any promotion of the vinyl medium as a collective
In essence we are just sitting back watching the industry slowly getting smaller without us been active in promoting our product or the artists involved
May be its time for someone to start the" International Vinyl Record Producers Association" with contributions from all concerned so as to promote the medium
Any takers out there?
But I am not a pro vinyl producer, so I felt it wasn't my place to suggest it until after I become a producer.
The assistance of vinyl ENTHUSIASTS could be solicited in this cause.... Go out, talk to collectors / enthusiasts, capture their excitement, make documentaries / videos / etc... That is my idea, anyway, but my camera is crappy, need to get a better (US $2k camera...) I think Andybee is already working on this avenue with a vid he's taking part in production of.
A MAJOR POINT OF CONTENTION between many both serious and casual vinyl record collectors I've talked to (sorry, I don't have numbers) and record makers I've seen: NOT ALL GENRES are alike, and shouldn't be cut alike. I'm not even talking about club singles vs. albums here; I'm just talking about long playing LP's, and about 7-inch singles.
For some genres (classic style jazz - new or old re-issue releases - and classic style rock, rockabilly, Neo-Swing, etc), I've talked with MANY end customers buying these records for the PURPOSE of playing on old high-end 1950's - 60's vacuum tube record players & jukes (for the 7-inch ones), often disappointed by skipping / mis-tracking.
If such a vinyl record producers association is formed, this SHOULD BE ADDRESSED - I believe it is a MAJOR UNTAPPED audience for new re-issue vinyl, BUT, these guys have Given Up on new vinyl, and say things like "New vinyl? Won't touch it. Been burned too many times. Spend all this time & money restoring classic tube sound systems (READ: lower-compliance pickups), then buy reissues of vintage 1950's-60s-70s vinyl, and it skips like crazy. No more." Sad.
To win back customers lost, collective decisions need to be made: Do vinyl producers want these people's business? If so, NEED to come up with some industry-wide TERM for this "new old" kind of cut: Like, "UNIVERSALLY COMPATIBLE VINYL (UCV) - Designed to play well on ALL Well-Adjusted stereo LP record players!!".
And a logo. Sort of like the old "RIAA" seal which used to appear on lots of albums in the 1960s - 70s. "UCV". "UNIVERSALLY COMPATIBLE VINYL".
I think you could win back lost business, in the certain target genres of music styles frequently bought to be played on older players - of course, those genres would need to be agreed upon.
Short term, tho: I have been restoring vintage tube players for years and have a good feel for what can & can't be tracked; could create a website with groove pictures taken from records of 1950's - 2000's, showing which track best, worst, or not at all, on these players.
producers & collectors should agree upon what genres these new requirements should be applied to. OBVIOUS Ones: Re-issues of 1950's-60s-70s material, and new bands playing in these older styles. These are the guys playing stuff on tube players! SOME are playing this stuff with modern "audiophile" $1,000 turntables that could track ANYTHING, but I believe AS MANY OR MORE are playing this stuff with classic original vintage players with less-compliant ceramic pickups.
WHY do people insist on playing stuff on old players? Don't get me started. PM me if you want an answer. They just do. And I'm one of them, 110%. I *hate* the sound of vinyl on anything else than a classic vintage system; hearing it on an original system is an INDESCRIBABLE EXPERIENCE you Can't get from a modern system which makes vinyl sound like freakin' CD's. WHY? Thats like asking, why do people like music? It's just vibrations of the air. Why would people pay for air vibrations? What's the meaning of life?...
Why ask why; it is what it is: A NOTICEABLE portion of the potential vinyl market currently largely IGNORED.
COMPROMISE. That's what it's all about.
CAPITOL/EMI got it PERFECT with an "audiophile 180 gram" Blue Note re-issue series they did in the 1990's, Direct from ANALOG master tapes.
PERFECT CUTS! Perfect compromise! Audiophiles LOVE them! YET... they play PERFECTLY on old players, NO SKIPPING! See????? It CAN be done!!!
This should be used as a model for ALL reissues of 1950s-60s-70s stuff, for STARTERS! And, for *ALL* 7-inch 45 rpm singles of ALL genres, so they will actually play in jukeboxes!
I'd be glad to photograph & circulate groove pics of that seres of CAPITOL/EMI Blue Note reissue LP's; I bought several from that series.
They DISPROVE the "audiophiles" claims that if you "pander to a low-class audience" who wants to play vinyl on old 1950s-60s record players, then your end product will be crap. TOTALLY FALSE.
Short version: records in 1950s-60s-70s genres should be cut with less aggressive levels, slightly deeper / wider-spaced grooves, with "Universally Compatible Vinyl" logo & ad campaign, to win back lost vinyl format business by folks feeling "betrayed" by untrackable new vinyl pressings on their favorite players.
I don't think record producers realize how many complaints there are about this in these music styles since they don't hear these end customers, but it's common knowledge among the "classic equipment crowd" (which spends LOTS OF MONEY on vinyl) that they would love to buy reissues but they can't , cause they skip / mis-track on anything but newer players / magnetic pickups, so, thus, they are forced to seek out older pressings, or even originals, and pay HIGH PRICES, which they do... (I've been forced into the same corner, and can provide groove photos again)
THE OBVIOUS RETORT: The band paying you to cut vinyl wants it to sound exactly like a CD, and loud as possible, and they're the ones paying you to make the cut.
MY SUGGESTION: Either (1) if they're a metal or techno band, that's NOT the "target audience" for Universally Compatible Vinyl, so, it doesn't matter. OR, (2) If they ARE a vintage 1950's-style rockabilly band, or neo-swing band, or vintage 1970s-style punk band, then Just tell them: If they don't allow you to cut Universally Compatible Vinyl, which WILL sound different from the CD (That's the whole f***in POINT of vinyl, BECAUSE it sounds "warmer" / mellower than a CD!!!!), then if you don't cut it as UCV, end customers will get mad at the band because they can't play the record on their fave players which play ORIGINAL 1970's punk, or 1950's rockabilly, JUST FINE.
OK... I hate to post this before I've actually got my ducks in a row to go out and buy a new US $2k camera & start interviewing collectors to back up these claims; but, there it is... if you don't believe me, seek out these collectors and ask them Yourselves... and I don't mean just the Internet Record Collectors forum, I mean REAL person-to-person collectors at record swap meets, conventions, flea markets, etc, etc... The "haunts" of vinyl collectors....
ASK the bigtime 1950s-60s-70s vinyl collectors: Many feel VINYL HAS "LOST ITS SOUL" by trying to SOUND LIKE CD's, with Louder Cuts, and More and More Extreme Bass & Treble: JUST FINE for techno, dance, metal; NOT for 1950s-60s-70s classic genres.
NOT ALL RELEASES; some modern releases they "get it just right" (i.e. Capitol / EMI 1990's audiophile LPs). But Many other modern releases, not.
Let's consider the possibility of winning them back as customers. By creating & implementing standards for UCV / "classic-style vinyl". Then, advertising them as selling points to these groups of "classic vinyl" customers - "VINYL'S GOT IT'S SOUL BACK"!
- Bob