VMS70 SCHEMATICS .... JUST A CLICK

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VMS70 SCHEMATICS .... JUST A CLICK

Unread postby Nickou » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:30 am

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Last edited by Nickou on Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread postby motorino » Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:07 pm

:D :wink: I like people like you!

Thanks Yann
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Unread postby opcode66 » Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:22 pm

@Yann

I think it is in poor taste to post this material. Even though it is clearly not owned by you or the guy selling the DVD's, he did put in the time and effort to scan all the documents and make the PDF's. You didn't.

You are giving away for free the hard work and dedication of someone else. I understand this forum is dedicated to freely sharing knowledge and resources. But, that resource was not yours to share....

I think you should take down that document from megaupload. What do others think?
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Unread postby fraggle » Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:56 pm

To be honest i actually think it is not right that this guys sells copies!
That's illegal anyway!
It belongs to neuman and they have the copyright in the first place.
Just because I burn a music cd and put the effort in to copy it does not mean I can sell the work from someone else....
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Unread postby mossboss » Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:36 am

If you guys visit his web site He has made a bussiness out of copying and selling all sorts of stuff which he is not the owner of either the material or copyright
Copyright lasts for 75 years a long way to go yet before it is public domain for the stuff he is flogging turning a 30 cent CD into $20 from bootlegging stuff is the way of pirates any way
It is an issue in vinyl records as there are so many bootlegs out there from unscrupulous pressing shops as well as the people who do the pirating
Giving the pressing shop an out by playing stupid or having a copyright release form signed by the irating guy is not the way either
"Arghhh really officer we had no idea"
Not nice at all but it is the way of the world today, is one pirate better than the other? I would have thought not
I wonder what these people would do or say if someone pirated their work where the boot is on the other foot
Cheers
Chris
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Unread postby Nickou » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:41 am

I bought this DVD and I thought than this information can be usefull for a lot of people in the forum ...
And if you prefer to buy a physical copy , you still can go on ebay ...

This guy spent time to scan all those document ... I spent money to buy it ...
and now it is mine , If I want to share it , it is my problem ...

If Neumann GMBH does not agree , it is different ... but they probably wont say anything . simply because they don t make business with that anymore
so ...
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Unread postby concretecowboy71 » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:34 am

Here are the guidelines for copyright in the USA.

Determining the Length of Copyright Protection
How long does copyright last? That depends on when the work was created and who created it. Here are some guidelines.

1. Works published from 1909 through 1921.
The initial copyrighted term of the work was 28 years from the date of publication. If the copyright was renewed during the 28th year, the copyright was extended for an additional 28-year period.

2. Works published from 1922 through 1963.
The initial copyrighted term of the work was 28 years from the date of publication. If the copyright was renewed during the 28th year, the copyright was extended for an additional 67-year period.

3. Works published from 1964 through 1978.
The initial copyrighted term of the work was 28 years from the date of publication, with an automatic renewal of an additional 67 years.

I am guessing the info falls into category 2 or 3. If it is category 2 and the copyright was not renewed, we are all OK using this info. If it falls in category 2 and was renewed or category 3, even the guy doing the scanning is violating the copyright.
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Unread postby concretecowboy71 » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:16 am

There is also a policy called "Fair Use" that may or may not apply in this situation.

People post manuals for all kinds of items all the time on the internet. Copyright usually applies to items that are sold such as books and music.

Here is more about Fair Use:

One of the rights accorded to the owner of copyright is the right to reproduce or to authorize others to reproduce the work in copies or phonorecords. This right is subject to certain limitations found in sections 107 through 118 of the copyright law (title 17, U. S. Code). One of the more important limitations is the doctrine of “fair use.” The doctrine of fair use has developed through a substantial number of court decisions over the years and has been codified in section 107 of the copyright law.

Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair:

1. The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes
2. The nature of the copyrighted work
3. The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole
4. The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the copyrighted work

The distinction between fair use and infringement may be unclear and not easily defined. There is no specific number of words, lines, or notes that may safely be taken without permission.

Acknowledging the source of the copyrighted material does not substitute for obtaining permission.

The 1961 Report of the Register of Copyrights on the General Revision of the U.S. Copyright Law cites examples of activities that courts have regarded as fair use: “quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment; quotation of short passages in a scholarly or technical work, for illustration or clarification of the author’s observations; use in a parody of some of the content of the work parodied; summary of an address or article, with brief quotations, in a news report; reproduction by a library of a portion of a work to replace part of a damaged copy; reproduction by a teacher or student of a small part of a work to illustrate a lesson; reproduction of a work in legislative or judicial proceedings or reports; incidental and fortuitous reproduction, in a newsreel or broadcast, of a work located in the scene of an event being reported.”

Copyright protects the particular way an author has expressed himself. It does not extend to any ideas, systems, or factual information conveyed in the work.

The safest course is always to get permission from the copyright owner before using copyrighted material. The Copyright Office cannot give this permission.

When it is impracticable to obtain permission, use of copyrighted material should be avoided unless the doctrine of fair use would clearly apply to the situation. The Copyright Office can neither determine if a certain use may be considered fair nor advise on possible copyright violations. If there is any doubt, it is advisable to consult an attorney.
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Unread postby Nickou » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:35 am

We saw a lot of schematics published in this forum .

except the Flozky"s design , all the information has been published with out the authorization of the owners .

so nothing new with this post ...


Please note than:
-I don t sell this information, I share it .
-I own the original manual and the machines ,no copyright is mentioned
-The subject of this forun is sharing information about record-cutting , this is what I do
- looking at the feedback of the ebay member who is selling this copy , he already sold hundreds of dvd of those schema ... so he did his money ... even more than what we imagine ...

The best is downloading it , studying it and making interesting topics about our cutters and how they work. We have some very good specialist here , and they will help us to understand better what we do when cut a laquer .
The result can be a bigger knowledge , and so better sounding records .
This is the only point : scharing informations and knowledge to make better sounding records.

Tomorow I ll get in touch with Georges Neumann gmbh to ask them if it is a problem than those schema are in this forum .
But I won t ask to the person who sold me this DVD if he agree.


Yann
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Unread postby fraggle » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:21 am

fair enough!
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Unread postby subkontrabob » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:53 am

yann de Kéroullas wrote:Tomorow I ll get in touch with Georges Neumann gmbh to ask them if it is a problem than those schema are in this forum .


Wasted time probably. I strongly suspect they won't care because they are busy manufacturing microphones :D

I contacted them 3 months ago about manuals or any info on the am31. Some secretary chick answered that they discontinued their cutting lathe business more than 15 years ago and referred me to a Mr Davies in England who never replied to my messages.
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Unread postby Nickou » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:56 am

So I ll ask to Mr Davies ... :D
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Unread postby opcode66 » Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:41 pm

All I was saying is that this guy spent the time and effort to make those particular scans and PDF's. If you own a copy of the same material and want to scan it and post it Ok. But posting his scans without his permission just didn't seem right to me. Guess no one agrees...

By no means am I trying to make any claims about the copyright of the original material. Nor am I saying that I don't want people to share things. I do. I just didn't think it was proper to share those particular scans.

However, I do think it is proper to take any manual or schematic you may have, scan it yourself, and post it!
Last edited by opcode66 on Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Nickou » Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:13 pm

I have a folder in my computer wich is named vms70 , the megaupload link is a link to a zip file of this folder , there is documents which are coming from this cd , others no.

I share the documentation I have with the members of the forum .
It is strange than nobody did it before with this vms 70 documentation

I changed the name of the topic to do not make more waves..
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Unread postby Chris Preston » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:05 am

Hello Lathe Troll Members:

It has come to my attention that one of my products, the Neumann VMS Lathe manual set DVD is being illegally given away with a link of this forum. All documents that were originally distributed by Gotham Audio are currently under Copy Right. The current owner of Gotham Audio, Lewis Frisch, went to great lengths to be sure to protect all of Gotham's documentation. They are presented on my DVD via License from Mr. Frisch and Gotham. Any web posting or copying of the info is strictly prohibited without written permission from Mr. Frisch. Lewis was very kind to allow me to make this info available and the price of the DVD is more than reasonable considering all of the work that went into scanning it. I'm currently working on some other Lathe manuals, perhaps Mr. yann de Kéroullas would like to steal those when they are released as well. I keep the price of my manuals lower than any other sellers on e-bay but people still find it more convenient to steal them. Please remove the link. I'm ccing a copy of this post to Mr. Frisch and he may want to take further action. Thank you for your consideration. To the many of you who buy my disks, I'm sorry for the bummer first post thanks for your biz!!
Chris Preston
Cedar Ranch Studio & Sound
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Unread postby blacknwhite » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:59 am

The original post has been edited, and the link removed.

Chris, apologies from the forum, and thanks for working to make this info available on a reasonably-priced DVD.

- Bob
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Unread postby fraggle » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:11 am

I don't get it.
Was this an original Neuman copy or what?
who exactly made this manual?
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Unread postby MEGAMIKE » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:35 am

the secret society of"this dude made it then this other dude bought it then this guy made dvds then some guy made free copys of it" lathe troll..
then we all complain about it even tho everybody downloaded it...
its a bad world we live in ,ive always said internet is the antichrist.hahhahhhahahaahhaaaah :twisted:
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VMS Manuals

Unread postby mossboss » Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:37 am

Chris Preston wrote:Hello Lathe Troll Members:

It has come to my attention that one of my products, the Neumann VMS Lathe manual set DVD is being illegally given away with a link of this forum. All documents that were originally distributed by Gotham Audio are currently under Copy Right. The current owner of Gotham Audio, Lewis Frisch, went to great lengths to be sure to protect all of Gotham's documentation. They are presented on my DVD via License from Mr. Frisch and Gotham. Thank you for your consideration. To the many of you who buy my disks, I'm sorry for the bummer first post thanks for your biz!!

Just for the record I did indeed purchased your DVD some time back
Also, May be I am a little cheeky in saying you that you do not have copyright
In saying that you do not have anything on the dvd/cd to indicate that is the case
Your own post does not really clear up the issue
As to Mr Fitsch and Gotham I may not have any doubts
But Neumann I would be surprised that they would have released copyright to any one including Gotham
I am in possesion of original manuals as well as original corespondence from both Gotham as well as Neumann from days past 1974 to be precise There is nothing anywhere as I said on your dvd / cd to indicate that besides all the original stuff I have is written in the respective letterheads of both companies with copyright notices attached
So I am not so sure about what you are saying here Mr Preston
I have contacted Neumann in the past for the same purpose I got a terse reply "We do not release copyright to anyone"
So unless you can do better than that on the Neumann issue I will remain sceptical as I have said not much doubt about Gothan Audio related material
Now that is the case in so far as Copyright is concerned In so far as the value for money as well as the effort, disemination of information, etc etc etc People may justify it in any way they want
At the end of the day pirating is just that and I personally do not approve of it
By the way the reason I purchased your dvd / cd is to verify that you had copyright, permission, or a licence as I was not succesfull in obtaining one
I wanted to know how you got it I did not bother in pursuing it any further as I suspected you did not or else you would have printed something like: This material is produced under license from: whoever
Unfortunatelly you did not say, or indicated it so as to make people aware that is the case in your material
I would be surprised if that is the case
However You are at freedom to prove me as well as others who maintain similar views to mine wrong
A scan of your documents posted here would suffice Sir if you are willing to back your claims up
No I am not going to give any one a copy of your stuff either
By comparison to the original material included with the lathes yours is missing a lot of information
Your dvd / cd is fine for collectors of paraphernalia however it is seriously lacking for any professional use in my view
Cheers
Chris
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Re: VMS70 SCHEMATICS .... JUST A CLICK

Unread postby dkmastering » Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:08 pm

:oops:
et toujours personne pour partager les schémas vms70 ou vms80. ..
on est en europe non... gotham on s'en fout un peu. ils sont au states...

drôles de sites de partage quand même. il va falloir mettre un lien sur un autre site. je prépare ça. ... dommage que ce ne soit pas possible ici.
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