Somewhere in Madrid before civil war
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Somewhere in Madrid before civil war
Anyone knows this press? Rca?
I've seen this photo before in my research; it's a press set up for radio transcriptions and looks like one of the Belgian manual presses used by many companies years ago. Not sure if that's what it is or who manufactured it though. The top of it looks like one of the old presses used by the VTMC... Anyone know the specific origin of this photo? Motorino maybe is you in a previous life?? 
Madrid Record Press
May be an Early Fabel press made by Fabeldis SA in Belgium Than again it could be any ones as presses where made by a lot of engineering shops at various times and places all over the world
So one or two off's are not unusual and you never see another one
Talking to a guy the other day he said to me that while he was doing his apprentiship at an engineering firm in Melbourne Australia he clearly remembers the construction of two record presses He is in his late seventies now so that would be around late thirties early forties There would not be much history attached to the manufacturer of those two machines
For them was just another job It is difficult with these one or two off's as there was not something like a standard production model even though this one seems like it was cast therefore patterns where made for that purpose which may mean there was a few made This is only a guess of course
Aussie what is your guess?
Cheers
So one or two off's are not unusual and you never see another one
Talking to a guy the other day he said to me that while he was doing his apprentiship at an engineering firm in Melbourne Australia he clearly remembers the construction of two record presses He is in his late seventies now so that would be around late thirties early forties There would not be much history attached to the manufacturer of those two machines
For them was just another job It is difficult with these one or two off's as there was not something like a standard production model even though this one seems like it was cast therefore patterns where made for that purpose which may mean there was a few made This is only a guess of course
Aussie what is your guess?
Cheers
-
Aussie0zborn
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- Location: Australia
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No Idea. I have never seen this before. As you mention Moss it has been cast so there would have been a few made and while it is similar and size in bulk to an EMI manual press it isn't an EMI machine. What makes this interesting is that it is a tilting head press unlike th enormal four colum hyraulic presses converted for record pressing as the Americans did. A tilting head press in that era was pretty advanced.
I didn't think Fabeldis made anything before the early sixties but information on this company is scarce so we can;t be sure.
I didn't think Fabeldis made anything before the early sixties but information on this company is scarce so we can;t be sure.
Press in Madrid
Hey All
Aussie if you don't know what on earth we are to do?
Seriously It is well advanced as it has a lock system with side bars operated manually The lever at the top will move the locking bars side ways so as to lock the top platen in place prior to the bottom platen moving upwards
The springs on the bottom will push the bottom platten down at the end of the cycle so as to allow the press to eject the record The operator will have to unlock the lever after words so as to open the press to 45 odd degrees There is a spring on the top left hand side of the press which will push the top platen down somewhat so as to take the pressure off it, or its sheer weight will do that any way
On the R hand side one can see a coil which most likely controlled oil or oil water mixture pressure for the Hydraulics, immediatelly to the left is the lever to apply cooling water It has a barrel union fitting on the line so it is not for Hydraulic pressure and to the right a lever is depicted to turn the oil pressure on or off Assuming (fair) it would have pressed Shellack records the die would have been heated at all times except when the operator admitted water for cooling The water condenses the steam in the die been at a lower temperature and at slighly higher pressure This water was fed back into the boiler intake tank (early form of energy savings) Being of thermosetting nature the material solidifies quite quickly and can be taken out of the moulds quite hot as against vinyl which has to be quite cool before it can be removed Any way if it was not a Febeldis machine it certainly inspired the guys at Alpha as in principle the 500 series presses are the same with some Automation on them Our very early one oil system 537 was made in 1967 well after this machine but in it's operatiing principles it is exactly the same apart of some refinements which are easily done once one can see the way
So I have heard that Fable did a very poor copy of the Alpha machine I think this is the grandad of both of them made by someone who certainly was way ahead of the game at the time It may have inspired both of them
By the way our early 537 still has the original Control box on it with stepped switches wired with about 30 odd resistors in each one of them to adjust the timing, This function is carried out by two valves or as they are refered to in the USA Tubes and let me say that they are as reliable as their solid state brothers in our other two machines I am sure there would have been at least another copy or two of this machine No doubt about it I wonder how many of them where turned into cannon for the war that followed in Europe, shortly after the place was bombed out of existance with only scrap metal left behind
Well at least the American radio stations gave their alluminum backed transcription lacquers for the war effort and Audio Devices used to pay a few pennies each for them for the same purpose The war scrap metal drives at the time all over the world has deprived us of lots of items that would have provided a treasure trove of all kinds of things
What the Heck, Such is Life
Cheers
Aussie if you don't know what on earth we are to do?
Seriously It is well advanced as it has a lock system with side bars operated manually The lever at the top will move the locking bars side ways so as to lock the top platen in place prior to the bottom platen moving upwards
The springs on the bottom will push the bottom platten down at the end of the cycle so as to allow the press to eject the record The operator will have to unlock the lever after words so as to open the press to 45 odd degrees There is a spring on the top left hand side of the press which will push the top platen down somewhat so as to take the pressure off it, or its sheer weight will do that any way
On the R hand side one can see a coil which most likely controlled oil or oil water mixture pressure for the Hydraulics, immediatelly to the left is the lever to apply cooling water It has a barrel union fitting on the line so it is not for Hydraulic pressure and to the right a lever is depicted to turn the oil pressure on or off Assuming (fair) it would have pressed Shellack records the die would have been heated at all times except when the operator admitted water for cooling The water condenses the steam in the die been at a lower temperature and at slighly higher pressure This water was fed back into the boiler intake tank (early form of energy savings) Being of thermosetting nature the material solidifies quite quickly and can be taken out of the moulds quite hot as against vinyl which has to be quite cool before it can be removed Any way if it was not a Febeldis machine it certainly inspired the guys at Alpha as in principle the 500 series presses are the same with some Automation on them Our very early one oil system 537 was made in 1967 well after this machine but in it's operatiing principles it is exactly the same apart of some refinements which are easily done once one can see the way
So I have heard that Fable did a very poor copy of the Alpha machine I think this is the grandad of both of them made by someone who certainly was way ahead of the game at the time It may have inspired both of them
By the way our early 537 still has the original Control box on it with stepped switches wired with about 30 odd resistors in each one of them to adjust the timing, This function is carried out by two valves or as they are refered to in the USA Tubes and let me say that they are as reliable as their solid state brothers in our other two machines I am sure there would have been at least another copy or two of this machine No doubt about it I wonder how many of them where turned into cannon for the war that followed in Europe, shortly after the place was bombed out of existance with only scrap metal left behind
Well at least the American radio stations gave their alluminum backed transcription lacquers for the war effort and Audio Devices used to pay a few pennies each for them for the same purpose The war scrap metal drives at the time all over the world has deprived us of lots of items that would have provided a treasure trove of all kinds of things
What the Heck, Such is Life
Cheers
-
Aussie0zborn
- Posts: 1828
- Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:23 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
It was actually EMI that made what looks like a poor copy of the Alpha 10H537 press.
The Fabel TC press was quite advanced. Apart from being temperature controlled rather than timer controlled, the crown was a two-piece design allowing you to replace the worn part of the crown rather than replacing the whole crown (which on an Alpha 10H537 is the entire top half of the machine which is a single piece cast). Also, rather than using a hydraulic rack and pinion to open the tilting head, the Fabel press has a water cylinder on each side to lower and raise the tilting head. Also, once the head closed and was locked off, the stroke was only 1/2" rather than 1" with Alpha, meaning that the closing of the press completed half the pressing cycle even before the upward stroke of the lower platen. And all this was designed in 1963 or earlier!!
There was also a Danish press made by "xxxx and Johansen" which I've never seen.
The Fabel TC press was quite advanced. Apart from being temperature controlled rather than timer controlled, the crown was a two-piece design allowing you to replace the worn part of the crown rather than replacing the whole crown (which on an Alpha 10H537 is the entire top half of the machine which is a single piece cast). Also, rather than using a hydraulic rack and pinion to open the tilting head, the Fabel press has a water cylinder on each side to lower and raise the tilting head. Also, once the head closed and was locked off, the stroke was only 1/2" rather than 1" with Alpha, meaning that the closing of the press completed half the pressing cycle even before the upward stroke of the lower platen. And all this was designed in 1963 or earlier!!
There was also a Danish press made by "xxxx and Johansen" which I've never seen.
Vinyl Record Presses
Hey All
I think it was a poor copy I am in possession of some original corespondnce where Mr Mauger at Astor is writing to Fabel in 1972 about a broken bottom cylinder crown Like Thomas had at Brooklyn Phone
Now I have never heard of an Alpha doing that and Thomas's machine did it a few months back 40 years later
That surely makes a bad copy Besides the two cylinders moving the top platen avoided the rack and pinion system but involved another ram to shove the lock the bars into place increasing component count control valves a further source of maintenance and potential trouble Not a bad machine overall really However the Alpha is superior No doubt By the way I am not aware of any of them still running the Fabel machines I mean Any one? There are still a whole lot of Alphas and SMT's around though including the odd EMI
Cheers
I think it was a poor copy I am in possession of some original corespondnce where Mr Mauger at Astor is writing to Fabel in 1972 about a broken bottom cylinder crown Like Thomas had at Brooklyn Phone
Now I have never heard of an Alpha doing that and Thomas's machine did it a few months back 40 years later
That surely makes a bad copy Besides the two cylinders moving the top platen avoided the rack and pinion system but involved another ram to shove the lock the bars into place increasing component count control valves a further source of maintenance and potential trouble Not a bad machine overall really However the Alpha is superior No doubt By the way I am not aware of any of them still running the Fabel machines I mean Any one? There are still a whole lot of Alphas and SMT's around though including the odd EMI
Cheers
Madrid Again?
Hey Motorino
It is you in a past life man!!!
It looks like he is making a copy from the t/t closer to us to the cutter t/t away from us on the photo
Interesting cutters
With the blank screwed down and what appears like a "brush" rather than a play back arm which it seems to be
But both cutters are down
Interesting
I wonder if it was just for the Photo or is he was actually doing something
Ok The guessing game has started
Hey
Where is Flo and the Satan that spins Vinyl
They may even know these Cutters
Today it would called "Copyright Violation" He He
Cheers
It is you in a past life man!!!
It looks like he is making a copy from the t/t closer to us to the cutter t/t away from us on the photo
Interesting cutters
With the blank screwed down and what appears like a "brush" rather than a play back arm which it seems to be
But both cutters are down
Interesting
I wonder if it was just for the Photo or is he was actually doing something
Ok The guessing game has started
Hey
Where is Flo and the Satan that spins Vinyl
They may even know these Cutters
Today it would called "Copyright Violation" He He
Cheers
Chris
I ask to the spanish radio archives when start the archive and comes from 1931 in 16" at diferent speeds, around 1955 comes the tape.
Not all but presses and lathes, electronic etc are made in Spain in that years, before civil war, german and french designs and copyes but made here
Big AM Radio transmiters etc made here too, microphones, mixers... dictatorial regime
I am studying the history of recorded sound of my country, is incredible..
Not all but presses and lathes, electronic etc are made in Spain in that years, before civil war, german and french designs and copyes but made here
Big AM Radio transmiters etc made here too, microphones, mixers... dictatorial regime
I am studying the history of recorded sound of my country, is incredible..
Madrid Again?
Hey Dude
I have a few 16" lacquers in my collection of record cutting paraphernalia
If you want to pay for the postage I'll be happy to post you one or two
Very rare and not used
Almost! well Museum pieces
But they are new and I have cut on them and they sound amazingly good for something that was made back in those days
Ok if you say some nice things about me I will post them anyway He He
New years present for a hard worker
Send me a pm with an address
Cheers
I have a few 16" lacquers in my collection of record cutting paraphernalia
If you want to pay for the postage I'll be happy to post you one or two
Very rare and not used
Almost! well Museum pieces
But they are new and I have cut on them and they sound amazingly good for something that was made back in those days
Ok if you say some nice things about me I will post them anyway He He
New years present for a hard worker
Send me a pm with an address
Cheers
Chris