Metro NYC Presto 6N table, 161a cutting lathe, plus more

[hammr7]

A good friend of mine has a vintage recording studio that he is looking to liquidate. He has a Presto 6N transcription table with a 161a cutting lathe and a Gray Research 106SL 16" playback arm. The unit is mounted on a movable metal cabinet. He also has Presto and Ampex tube tape decks, plus a host of ancillary equipment. I am pretty sure he has extra cutting heads, styli, and at least a box or two of unused blanks. He would prefer to deal locally, and would like to sell the lathe / turntable assembly intact. Any interest these days?

[mischmerz]

Would you be able to post a few images?

mm.

[hammr7]

I just wanted to update this post a bit. I'll get back to those of you who messaged me in the next day or two.

I'll also try to get pictures soon unless my friend gets his membership on the forum, in which case he can take over correspondence.

Some additional equipment that is available:

An Ampex 350 recorder with tube preamp.
A Presto CR 1024 recorder with tube amp, power supply, and wheeled cabinet for all three
Grampian-Gotham PFB-150 WA cutting head amplifier.
What appears to be a Presto 900 series or similar compressor

[hammr7]

Here is a link to some of the images. Please note there are sub-folders.

In answer to a few questions, my friend is a bit overwhelmed at the prospect of packaging and shipping this gear. I have done so in the past, but for this gear it would not be easy.

http://s410.photobucket.com/user/lathe731/library/?sort=3&page=1

[tragwag]

just want to mention the model number 161A you're finding is that of the automatic EQ unit, on top of the standard 6N overhead.
this EQ unit would raise the high frequency response of the cut as it traveled inward, helping with inner groove distortion problems.
http://www.prestohistory.com/Presto3.html

*from Alan Graves amazing Presto History page.

[dubcutter89]

The Gotham amp looks a little different to those I've seen yet (pics only..)
No Gotham plate on back, different arrangement of tubes, different input or interstage x-former, different psu and a custom made front panel + knobs.
Is it an early one? Pre Serial? Clone?

Defentive a really cool mono setup!

Lukas

[Stevie342000]

It looks to me that whoever purchased the Presto equipment originally got a full set up from Presto including the new format of tape, that is an early Presto tape recorder that bears more than a passing resemblance to the Ampex 200 and the EMI BTR1.

I would suggest that the original Presto set up was purchased no earlier than 1947 or 1948 (as the Presto 90B came out about that time as did early professional tape recorders) as for its latest original date of purchase I would put it at no later than 1952 (is is around the 1950 - 1952 time frame that I have seen the Grampian RA-7 adverts).

The assumed Gotham power amp for driving the cutter head is a later addition and it is my opinion is is not a Gotham but a Grampian RA7 - which if I recall predates Gotham and was supplied by Reeves-Soundcraft seen adverts for the Grampian but can not remember if there were any pictures of it. This would account for the different layout of the tubes/valves and for the face plate being different. On the other hand it could be an early sample of the Gotham power amp which is essentially a rework of the Grampian RA 7 which was designed to work with the BBC/Grampian cutter heads also sold by Reeves-Soundcraft. The Grampian set up may have been available from Gotham at some point from the mid to late 1950s which if memory serves me is the time frame for the Gotham cutting amp.

Needless to say the Presto set up would have cost a pretty packet when purchased new and the Gotham/Grampian cutter amps were not cheap either. Interestingly the Presto Compressor looks like non I have seen before - no front panel but it is definitely Presto - odd that the controls and meter would be behind any front or blanking plate - but once set the compressor should need no adjustment so that would stop the current trend for knob twiddlers.

[audiocarver]

Now the way they have that Presto compressor set up, I for one, like very much!

Easy service in a busy cutting room with that kind of layout!!

[Stevie342000]

Now the way they have that Presto compressor set up, I for one, like very much!

Easy service in a busy cutting room with that kind of layout!!

Yes I thought it was a good set up but missed the Presto front panel, I have just had a look through the Alan Graves website there is a Presto 6N in a cabinet which is listed as a Gates cabinet. That is what the Presto 1024 is in a Gates cabinet.

The prices for the equipment is on the site as well the tape machine was $700 plus another $400 plus for the A900A2 (I think) electronics. Prices are given for around the 1950 period which was my ball park area for the original production/purchase dates.

Still not sure that the Gotham amp is actually a Gotham it would have been very unusual even if the amp turns out to be a Grampian RA-7 cutting amp for them to have used American sourced components, however if it was designed by the BBC and manufactured by Grampian for them as the heads were then that would not be so unusual. American kit in the UK post world war 2 was very unusual import duties were high and did not really take place in any number until Ampex set up firstly with Rank-Centel to distribute the Ampex VR-1000 in 1957 and then opening there own branch in the UK in Reading in or around 1962. The BBC had Presto kit 6N's, 8D(something - probably G), plus 89A or 88A cutting amps as well as the 41A which they modified for use with the Grampian cutting head with feedback.

I have only ever seen advertisements for the Grampian RA-7 from the front but toroidal output transformers in that time frame were unusual either side of the pond. It probably is an early or prototype Gotham amp but the plain layout suggests that it was early and was a later addition.

The Ampex tape machine is a 350 (there is no black dot under the meter switch) and was introduced in or around 1953, the serial number will tell you the production date i.e. F53 for February 1953, it will be on a blue painted metal label.

[tubefan]

Definitely Gotham amps. Front panel from left to right is identical, just different panel work everywhere. Possibly a clone? From left to right, current meter, switch to check bias on left and right tubes, input attenuator, and switchable EQ. Rear is similar layout but different metalwork again. Toroid GR 942-A output transformer in the center, pair of 811's, etc. Earlier power supply style with tube regulators and separate filament/plate voltage switches. Amperex time delay tube for delaying the plate voltage on the back.

[audiocarver]

Taking a look at my Grampian Gotham literature and schematics, it looks like this amplifier is from before January 10, 1955.

After July 10, 1957 they no longer had the time delay tube and used the 6AU4 rectifiers in the power supply section as well as removed the T3 transformer.

[Stevie342000]

Taking a look at my Grampian Gotham literature and schematics, it looks like this amplifier is from before January 10, 1955.

After July 10, 1957 they no longer had the time delay tube and used the 6AU4 rectifiers in the power supply section as well as removed the T3 transformer.

Not sure what the time frame is for the manufacture of the Gotham amp but I would figure this is an early one, might fit in with the time frame for the upgrade to the Ampex 350 as well. Given that the Gotham looks like no Gotham cutting amp I had seen before that was what made think it might have been a Grampian RA-7 but from the information I have on that it uses different tubes and has a ECC83 for the delay tube circuit on the bias supply. There are other differences as well in the the tube line up on the front end as well.

It was always my assumption that the Gotham amp was a reworking or refinement on the Grampian RA-7 circuit. As far as I can tell the output transformer differs as well looks like a Parmeko or Partridge part number. The schematic I have for the RA-7 is later from 1959 but as far as I know it was available from the early 1950s (need to find those adverts to check out for sure) - never seen but still looking for a full manual for the Grampian RA-7.

The equipment for sale is one heck of a set up - needs work to clean it up though but doubt there is much wrong with it. The only issue you have to be aware of with old kit is dud capacitors or rectifiers taking out the transformers those will be expensive to replace but apart from that it is all well made.

[Gridlock]

I click on the pics but cannot see! Perhaps they could go on the actual thread of that's okay and maybe some background on the original operator. Or maybe that's too personal! Presto gear rules

[audiocarver]

Taking a look at my Grampian Gotham literature and schematics, it looks like this amplifier is from before January 10, 1955.

After July 10, 1957 they no longer had the time delay tube and used the 6AU4 rectifiers in the power supply section as well as removed the T3 transformer.

Not sure what the time frame is for the manufacture of the Gotham amp but I would figure this is an early one, might fit in with the time frame for the upgrade to the Ampex 350 as well. Given that the Gotham looks like no Gotham cutting amp I had seen before that was what made think it might have been a Grampian RA-7 but from the information I have on that it uses different tubes and has a ECC83 for the delay tube circuit on the bias supply. There are other differences as well in the the tube line up on the front end as well.

It was always my assumption that the Gotham amp was a reworking or refinement on the Grampian RA-7 circuit. As far as I can tell the output transformer differs as well looks like a Parmeko or Partridge part number. The schematic I have for the RA-7 is later from 1959 but as far as I know it was available from the early 1950s (need to find those adverts to check out for sure) - never seen but still looking for a full manual for the Grampian RA-7.

The equipment for sale is one heck of a set up - needs work to clean it up though but doubt there is much wrong with it. The only issue you have to be aware of with old kit is dud capacitors or rectifiers taking out the transformers those will be expensive to replace but apart from that it is all well made.

Well, I'm more confused now myself. I only have the Gotham literature that came with my amp and Grampian D cutter head. It's a full fledged typed manual with operation instructions and technical explanation of circuitry and has part lists, voltage charts for various points in the amp and power supply. The manual is dated July 1957 but the voltage chart is dated December 1961. I also have various schematics for it with different dates listed on the bottom of each. Out of the three power supply schematics, except for one, there is no date on the bottom and it looks like it's early. It must predate 1955 though as that is the next schematic change date I have here. The last one is from 1957 and I think there is another probably in or around 1959 or 1960 or maybe 1961 when they started using the 6AU4 tubes in the power supply instead of the 6BL4s. The voltage chart I have here lists the 6AU4s in the power supply section and my amp has the 6AU4s in it. My Gotham amp looks nothing like this one in the pics he has here, but matches the literature I have. So I'm guessing mine is later than 1961.

I wished I knew more about the Grampian RA-7 now then. Must have used it more with Grampian B and C cutter heads then.

I know, this listing is amazing! It's tough to find a complete Ampex 350 and even a complete Presto CR1024. Although not exactly the same, but if somebody had a dream to have a classic Sun Records knock off rig/cutting room this would be it!!

[Stevie342000]

Taking a look at my Grampian Gotham literature and schematics, it looks like this amplifier is from before January 10, 1955.

After July 10, 1957 they no longer had the time delay tube and used the 6AU4 rectifiers in the power supply section as well as removed the T3 transformer.

Not sure what the time frame is for the manufacture of the Gotham amp but I would figure this is an early one, might fit in with the time frame for the upgrade to the Ampex 350 as well. Given that the Gotham looks like no Gotham cutting amp I had seen before that was what made think it might have been a Grampian RA-7 but from the information I have on that it uses different tubes and has a ECC83 for the delay tube circuit on the bias supply. There are other differences as well in the the tube line up on the front end as well.

It was always my assumption that the Gotham amp was a reworking or refinement on the Grampian RA-7 circuit - they are essentially the same circuit with the largest difference in the Power Supply Unit - the Grampian has a more robust bias and standby set up - there are slight valve/tube differences but nothing major that has more to do with availablity in the UK of what what could and would have unobtanium valves/tubes in the UK or just plain too expensive. As far as I can tell the output transformer differs as well looks like a Parmeko or Partridge part number. The schematic I have for the RA-7 is later from 1959 but as far as I know it was available from the early 1950s (need to find those adverts to check out for sure) - never seen but still looking for a full manual for the Grampian RA-7.

The equipment for sale is one heck of a set up - needs work to clean it up though but doubt there is much wrong with it. The only issue you have to be aware of with old kit is dud capacitors or rectifiers taking out the transformers those will be expensive to replace but apart from that it is all well made.

Well, I'm more confused now myself. I only have the Gotham literature that came with my amp and Grampian D cutter head. It's a full fledged typed manual with operation instructions and technical explanation of circuitry and has part lists, voltage charts for various points in the amp and power supply. The manual is dated July 1957 but the voltage chart is dated December 1961. I also have various schematics for it with different dates listed on the bottom of each. Out of the three power supply schematics, except for one, there is no date on the bottom and it looks like it's early. It must predate 1955 though as that is the next schematic change date I have here. The last one is from 1957 and I think there is another probably in or around 1959 or 1960 or maybe 1961 when they started using the 6AU4 tubes in the power supply instead of the 6BL4s. The voltage chart I have here lists the 6AU4s in the power supply section and my amp has the 6AU4s in it. My Gotham amp looks nothing like this one in the pics he has here, but matches the literature I have. So I'm guessing mine is later than 1961.

I wished I knew more about the Grampian RA-7 now then. Must have used it more with Grampian B and C cutter heads then.

I know, this listing is amazing! It's tough to find a complete Ampex 350 and even a complete Presto CR1024. Although not exactly the same, but if somebody had a dream to have a classic Sun Records knock off rig/cutting room this would be it!!

It is a dream system sorry for any confusion on the Gotham/Grampian pedigree but as the Gotham amp has no name plates on it and the Grampian uses the same tube set up one being British the other being American, my assumption from the literature that I have seen is that the Grampian pre-dates the Gotham cutting amp and the Grampian was designed to be used with the BBC feedback cutter heads. My further assumption then is if the BBC licensed people like Grampian to make the Cutter heads or at least to badge them (as they were technically made by MOY - precision engineers with connections to the UK film industry - Elstree or Pinewood). That it then follows that the Grampian RA-7 is a BBC design - I have found no evidence and do not have a full manual.

As far as I can remember the advertisements for the Grampian RA-7 pre-dates (early 1950s) the Gotham adverts even by Reeves Industries that I have seen. The two designs are very similar, as far as I know the Gotham amp was a refinement based on the Grampian RA-7. The Grampian was designed only for the BBC head (you probably could use it with non feedback heads but would need to see a full manual for that - as it looks like the feedback look is switchable between feedback and non feedback heads. The Gotham was available in two forms one for feedback i.e. BBC Grampian head and non feedback head read as Presto 1-D or Fairchild.

I do not have schematics for the Grampian RA-7 earlier than 1959 it does not mention a revision number but that varies from company to company. I have few schematics for the Gotham but never looked at the dates. The Gotham is supposed to sound better than the Grampian, or so I have been told when replaying discs that have been cut using both amps.

The system that is up for sale makes for one of the top flight systems from that time frame in the early 1950s, top flight US system of course being Scully or an imported Neumann which came later on in the 1950s. The Presto 6N is not a Fairchild 741 or its earlier form but a very very competent and not too cheap system.

[kansei]

Hello, everyone. I am the owner of the gear in question. I would like to thank Steve for permitting me into the forum. In addition, I would like to thank everyone who has so generously contributed information about the gear. Last, but not least, I would like to thank my dear friend hammr7 for his help, education and advice.

I have been collecting consumer tube gear for almost a decade. My interest is mostly in McIntosh, Marantz and Harman Kardon tube gear. I have some repair and build skills, and a whole host of test equipment I use to work on the gear. Recording studio equipment is a mystery to me, and slightly outside of my sphere of interest. While I could keep the items listed here indefinitely, I think they have a home elsewhere, and reading this thread confirms it.

In the meantime, I found two more recording amplifiers. They look like the Presto 88A (the one without the meter), and a later Presto 88 model. Both look similar, and appear to have the same tube load, they differ in the layout and output transformer brand. I did not get to testing these yet (using a Variac, of course). http://s410.photobucket.com/user/lathe731/library/Presto%2088%20recording%20tube%20amplifier?sort=3&page=1

If any of you have contacted me through my friend, I apologize in advance if I have not replied. Feel free to contact me directly through the forum. I will provide my phone number or call you upon request.

My strong preference is for a local, in person sale (and cash payment) as opposed to third party relay sales and further complications. I would gladly deliver the bigger items within a reasonable distance, except that I would have to rent a truck and do it on a weekend. I have an idea of all the prices, but would prefer not to post them in the open forum.

[aaronjl]

This could be perfect, actually! My wife and I are opening a recording studio just north of NYC that will focus on 20s-50s gear. Coaching bands and cutting direct to disc, one take.

Email sent!

[kansei]

I am happy to announce that I found a great home for the Presto 6N lathe, the Presto 90B, and the Ampex tape deck.

At this time I have the Grampian / Gotham PFB-150 WA and the Presto CR 1024 tape deck listed on the auction site with local pickup. It is amazing how much interest these two have stirred up.

I will be also listing the Presto compressor on the auction site as well since I am unable to determine an approximate value for what is surely a rare item.

[kansei]

I only have a few items left. Below is a list. Please see the below link for the pictures. I may be able to test the two amps over the weekend if I have time. Will also take better pictures. Will discount for multiple items.

http://s410.photobucket.com/user/lathe731/library/?sort=3&page=1

Presto 88 recording tube amplifier with built in equalization settings (the one that's missing the meter, untested at this time) - $600
Presto 88 recording tube amplifier with built in equalization settings (untested at this time) - $800
Presto compressor and external power supply (lights up on the Variac, no further testing) - $1600

These are strictly for in-person pickup and cash. Not interested in PayPal transactions and proxy shipping at this time. Thank you.

[kansei]

Bump and price reduction. Added compressor pictures to the Photobucket.

http://s410.photobucket.com/user/lathe731/library/?sort=3&page=1

Presto 88 clone recording tube amplifier with built in equalization settings (the one that's missing the meter, untested at this time) - $400
Presto 88 clone recording tube amplifier with built in equalization settings (untested at this time) - $500
Presto compressor and external power supply. Lights up on the Variac and passes sound. The potentiometer controls the output level. The right-side selector changes dB meter deflection. Unsure what the left-side selector does. Two UTC transformers (UTC LS-10x and UTC LS-51) - $700

These are strictly for in-person pickup and cash. Not interested in PayPal transactions and proxy shipping at this time. If multiple parties are interested, the first one to pick it up gets it. Thank you.