hollywood sound/tone/tuning conspriacy

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JayDC
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hollywood sound/tone/tuning conspriacy

Post: # 15568Unread post JayDC
Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:40 pm

I found this clip while trying to research about resonance frequencies and what they are/do and how this effects recorded material..

its very interesting..

http://wn.com/Battle_Of_Los_Angeles_440_Hz_741_Hz_F_Sharp_Score_Sound_Track


Could it really be that certain tones and tuning scales are implemented to cause negative dissonance world wide?

If so, how far back does it go? could our recording equipment resonate at harmful frequencies for society as a whole?

Could this be a reason people rather listen to digital music over vinyl, coz resonate frequencies not contained in digital recordings put them off to vinyl due to less stress encountered?
generally its for reproduction.. but i like to play wif it sometimes.. :P

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emorritt
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Post: # 15572Unread post emorritt
Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:50 pm

This Zeph guy is a raving idiot. First, the F# above A 440 is 739 Hz and even if you intentionally tuned a few cents sharp to 741 most people wouldn't notice the difference. Second, if you simultaneously strike A 440 and the F# above it, it's a major 6th; a consonant interval, not dissonant. Do the same with the F# below A 440, it's a minor third, also a consonant interval. So where he's ranting on about how this composer he's talking about "keeps hitting this interval over and over in his score and my dogs are getting upset, I'm about to put my fist through the glass" blah blah blah etc., he must be on meth or something even better. That would explain his irritation, not the music. (Meth could make you put a fist through glass to Debussy!) SIC:

Image

While he makes no mention of any other underlying harmonies which *could* cause dissonance, the basic intervals and tuning he's referring to are not dissonant. A music degree comes in handy now and then. 8)

And as many of you know, A was not standardized at 440 Hz until 1936. Prior to that, A 435 was the standard and going further back in music history you will find other 'A' pitches being used (430, 415, etc.). Go back to Bach's time and instruments weren't even tweeked to equal temperament, which means intervals on historic instruments are different than those conforming to modern tuning. So to us, music played on instruments of the 1600's might not seem dissonant; a little "pitchy" perhaps (thank you Randy Jackson) but not unpleasant to the point of punching holes in the wall. Insanity in the 1600's and 1700's was attributed to many things, but not dissonant music. (Maybe the glass harmonica which contained lead and allegedly caused players of the instrument to "go mad", but certainly not because of dissonance as our YouTube blogger theorizes.)

And as far as any recording equipment resonating at dissonant intervals, for over 30 years I've repeatedly listened to music recorded acoustically through digitally and the only irritation I suffer from is the poor quality of mp3's and noise introduced by digital processing. Even so, to date I haven't put my hands or any other appendage through glass windows, walls or other people. :lol: Wait, maybe an appendage through other people, uh... OK, off the soapbox before I become the Weiner of the Lathe Trolls. :shock:

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JayDC
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Post: # 15576Unread post JayDC
Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:51 am

ouch, zeph touched a nerve.. :oops:
zeph says you have to tune your hearing to A-432hz in order to realize the the negative effect. so maybe you don't notice it, just like how i don't notice inner diameter loss..

please let me clarify "causes world wide dissonance" by saying "causes world wide disagreement or incongruity"..

may I ask you a few questions?

how often do you listen to post '80's records and are your favorite records cut prior to '73?

When you listen to older records, do you feel a warm fussy feeling still to this day, and feel that newly remastered re-releases of old favorites do not feel the same way as the originals?

Please do not justify your feelings, I would like yes or no and short answers. Lets maintain a level of positivity in this thread.
:)
generally its for reproduction.. but i like to play wif it sometimes.. :P

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emorritt
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Post: # 15578Unread post emorritt
Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:25 am

OK, how do I "tune my hearing"? I don't have tuning pegs or machine heads on my eardrums, nor can I adjust the length of my ear canal. :lol: Listening and hearing (and they are different) are objective and how each individual responds to certain sounds, noises, music, intervals, etc. varies greatly from person to person. If you wanted a "conspiracy" that would affect everyone (like South Park's "brown tone") it would be very difficult to do it through audio information. It would be very difficult to cause general worldwide 'disagreement and incongruity' by playing tones (even works by Schoenberg). Bah-ZING! :twisted:

As I stated, I regularly listen to ALL types of recordings from all periods, even CD's. I don't have "favorites" because of recording technique; each is what it is and all have their positive and negative characteristics. I do, as many on this forum do, favor analog domain recordings because bottom line, our ears are analog. Chopping sounds up into samples, no matter at what frequency, does affect how our brains respond to the overall tonal characteristic and consequently the revival in open reel tapes, records, etc. 10 years ago you could have had open reel equipment on eBay for nearly nothing. Same with classic turntables, vacuum tube amplifiers, etc. Look at prices now. The market reflects consumer perception of quality and more and more people are rediscovering that analog recordings and reproduction sound and "feel" more natural than a machine language representation of what in nature is purely analog. Granted, analog recording is not perfect, neither is digital; NO recording method is perfect, but some techniques to many people sound and feel "better" than others.

And I am being positive... otherwise I wouldn't have included the humorous spin on my take on this douche. "But you're MY douche, Zeph... please come back and be my douche."

I watch too much Family Guy when not cutting...

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JayDC
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Post: # 15584Unread post JayDC
Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:19 pm

tuning your hearing is a lot like tuning your voice. You need to expose your self to the correct frequency for about 1-2 hours initially. If you play guitar, try tuning your guitar to A2-432hz, and play primarily C3. If anything this will bring back the joy of playing.

If the tone of dissonance is in EVERYTHING past '73 then it wouldn't be that hard to correlate why now is now. and back then seemed better. I wouldn't know a world of difference, I was born in 80, after all this happened. If my family didn't have an insane record collection than goes back as far as shellac, I would never "know in my heart" the difference.

Saying technical stuff about an ear to try to justify your feelings is not a correct approach, you should try to think about how sound effects the mind, body, and soul. The army did, in '38. It's all psychoacoustics..

You never really answered any of my questions, and I still have more for you.

What is your favorite lathe to cut on, what lathe cut your favorite record of all time?

Why did Elvis cause riots, and how did the Beatles invade popular music?

Jon Lennon said it himself, "all you need is love"..

Your mothers cooking is the most delicious because the secret ingredient is love.. My mothers cooking never contained love, just msg, till larry's season salt took it out of the recipe.. sigh..

love is a vibration.. so is hate.. which means they can be measured in hz.
apparently if you mix love and hate, on a tonal level, it will accelerate to mass hysteria..[ '58 - '72?]

Family guy is good, seth is very talented, could be the next mel blanc.. I personally enjoy american dad, the writing is a bit more witty, then jokes.. to each his own.. They are both from the same creator..

The first 2 songs i ever in my life heard on vinyl were:

Bob Seger - Old Time Rock n Roll
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w70McARIKuw

Billy Joel - Uptown Girl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d3oXHAnuIE

In that order. Thanks mom...

PLEASE NOTE: All years stated reflect time periods in American history..

Meth is not a joke.. That crap dam near killed me once..
generally its for reproduction.. but i like to play wif it sometimes.. :P

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JayDC
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Post: # 15602Unread post JayDC
Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:49 pm

one more.. just because reminds me of my dad..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMUxvDBFQYs

you can really hear the love in this one..
generally its for reproduction.. but i like to play wif it sometimes.. :P

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maniman
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Post: # 15603Unread post maniman
Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:53 am

Is true , you transmit what you feel , the human mind is unlimited , the experts explain all this as placebo / nocebo pair (because they only knows how your mind affects your body , not how your mind affect the enviorment) , but this things are expandable to our live , an example , in many many music giants , there is one genius and one worker , the genius brainstorms and the worker arrange , the genius are totally convinced of the succed because the worker makes the job and the worker are totally convinced because the genius make the idea , both emit this wave , both trust in the other , and that works , that feeling is insufflated in the recording , in the mixing in the cutting. One day that dual team breaks , and .... you know whats the luck of that type of projects with only one of the guys of a past superband ? sure failure.

About the dissonances , totally agree with both , but insist , this is only in the occidental music formula , in many many cultures intervals that are note-to-avoid in our music conception are a totally usable formulas , ask to someone who plays Sitar like traditionally....they play tensions all the time (including 1 semi intervals , tri-tone , and all kind of strange triads ).

About the 440 displacement , thats totally true , I meet and old man (unfortunately died a few years ago) they was church organ luthier for more than 50 years , and he was tuned all type of pianos , clavis , organs even hammonds and rhodes , one time he told that was be a general trend between piano - tune mans , amphitheater builders and restorers , piano builders in general all goes between 5 to 15 hz more or less ....


http://drjazz.ca/musicians/pitchhistory.html

I guess are tryng to analize too deep , is like the song "What is Soul" , this is soul , is that other especial thing , if put DACs , algorithms , processing in the f**& mid of all that , isn't the same , that is my conclusion. You are right I noticed that type of things many times
Very Busy days , some cutting works at least , soon online again

We must promote the use and abuse of vinyl records.

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JayDC
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Post: # 15610Unread post JayDC
Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:44 pm

The link that was posted wrote: The device and his amazingly accurate method of measuring beats were described in Scheibler's book The Physical and Musical Tonometer .
Would like to very much like to read this book.. :)
The link that was posted wrote: Broadwood's low pitch equalled A=433 and was close to the A=435 pitch recommended by a French commission in 1859.Broadwood's medium pitch was 445 and the highest fork was tuned to A=454. Generally singers preferred low pitch, the medium pitch was probably used for home tuning and high pitch was used in tuning pianos to the orchestra and in concert settings.
interesting, this piano company knew it, and the signers did too.. funny, I guess there was a reason why no matter how good you were at home, you are always better on stage.. lol

A-454 sounds like it could be annoying.. not as annoying as A-440 tho..
generally its for reproduction.. but i like to play wif it sometimes.. :P

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maniman
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Post: # 15611Unread post maniman
Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:35 pm

I guess the room reverb was be the "gratia" in the most of this scenarios , I can imagine that is taked in care when the piano man comes to do the annual tune-in. As you know when we are talking are very ancestral times of the spetacle focused events , called "lírica" (lyric) ? , (yes , in the modern era , not greece tragedys and all that) , that was be the "technical" context handled in that times.

Best Regards
Mani
Very Busy days , some cutting works at least , soon online again

We must promote the use and abuse of vinyl records.

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JayDC
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Post: # 15612Unread post JayDC
Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:05 pm

its also interesting to note that none of the tuning scales mention 432, yet some come close. I'm really starting to wonder how changing the international tuning scale to A432 would effect society, and possibly the universe..

I am willing to bet my life that it would change our world in a good way. Even if I'm never around to experience it..

I am also theorizing that tones COULD potentially be the key to unlocking string theory.. dual resonance model [ '69 ]
generally its for reproduction.. but i like to play wif it sometimes.. :P

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emorritt
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Post: # 15632Unread post emorritt
Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:09 pm

Jay, what does 1973 have to do with pitch/dissonance/whatever phenomena you're driving at? I don't recall any major changes in music instrument manufacturing, performance, tuning, recording or major changes in equipment, oscillators used in tape recorders, head resonances in disc equipment, etc. I think you've mentioned 1973 twice now and I'm not sure what the significance is.

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JayDC
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Post: # 15633Unread post JayDC
Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:25 pm

emorritt wrote:Jay, what does 1973 have to do with pitch/dissonance/whatever phenomena you're driving at? I don't recall any major changes in music instrument manufacturing, performance, tuning, recording or major changes in equipment, oscillators used in tape recorders, head resonances in disc equipment, etc. I think you've mentioned 1973 twice now and I'm not sure what the significance is.
either do i.. lol...
generally its for reproduction.. but i like to play wif it sometimes.. :P

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Serif
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Post: # 15643Unread post Serif
Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:56 am

emorritt wrote:Jay, what does 1973 have to do with pitch/dissonance/whatever phenomena you're driving at? I don't recall any major changes in music instrument manufacturing, performance, tuning, recording or major changes in equipment, oscillators used in tape recorders, head resonances in disc equipment, etc. I think you've mentioned 1973 twice now and I'm not sure what the significance is.

I've also noticed that records from 1973 and before in my collection are generally more pleasant to listen to, for some reason... I wonder if moving to 550+ W /channel cutter amps was the culprit? The SX-74 came out the next year?
Anything else change after '73? (I turned 8.) Tom Baker becomes the fifth doctor Who as Nixon resigns. Cost of a gallon of Gas 55 cents.

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/1974.html


- "Vern" Joules

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Kris D
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Post: # 15644Unread post Kris D
Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:49 am

Interesting thread.... I was talking to a friend of mine about this and he claims the increase in frequency is due to concert halls getting bigger and bigger requiring string instruments to be louder, which means more tension so higher frequency.

- Kris

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Nickou
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Post: # 15645Unread post Nickou
Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:53 am

http://www.carnaval.com/music432/
some interesting data about this problem of pitch


personaly , I do my music with a pitch of 432

I feel better with this pitch , but I can t say why

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Post: # 15646Unread post Nickou
Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:56 am


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Post: # 15647Unread post Nickou
Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:01 pm


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