Hello All,
I'm working on a RekOKut B12 with the M12 Lathe on it and have, after 6 months, gotten everything mechanically working, I think. I feel like I'm so close to embossing my first actual sound onto something but I've run up against an issue, excessive noise!
The first source of noise I can hear is the fingerlike projection that the platter has that goes down into the unit sounds like it is rubbing. Leveling the unit more precisely has helped, but it hasn't removed the rubbing noise completely. It sounds like it's a certain contact point as it happens briefly, once per rotation. Would using a lubricant or a fine grit sandpaper on this be advisable or would I be introducing another problem in attacking the problem this way?
The more significant source of noise is surface noise. I can hear the needle scratching on the surfaces I've tested on extremely well, and in fact there are pieces of material chipping off when I am cutting. The issue might be the surface hardness of the "blanks" I'm cutting on, which are cd's that I've heated up to 102-105 degrees Fahrenheit with a hairdryer while on the platter, but it might also be an issue of the angle I'm embossing with.
I purchased the following embossing needles:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tungsten-vinyl-cutting-stylus-presto-rek-o-kut-record-lathe-RCA-Wilcox-Gay/283222021547
but in the instructions included with my purchase suggest using an embossing angle of over 25 degrees, which I can't seem to achieve. Adding additional slipmats and locking in the shank of the needle with the most amount of protrusion has enabled me to get to about 18 degrees but if I raise the "blank" up any further the front end of the cutting head would start to drag on the disc surface.
Any advice anyone can give me on reducing this surface noise would be greatly appreciated!
RekOKut M12 Surface Noise Issue
Moderators: piaptk, tragwag, Steve E., Aussie0zborn
Re: RekOKut M12 Surface Noise Issue
Hi there, I am sorry to say that I do not have an answer but seem to be running into a similar problem and don't think it would require it's own thread. Here's my predicament:
I have a Rek O Kut M12 lathe and I'm using a Dayton amplifier (I'm pretty sure I purchased it off someone who researched here). Anyway I have everything up and running, I am using these blanks for testing purposes: https://ebay.to/2XB0Arc
For disc prep, I used Turtle wax and buffed with a microfiber cloth. I have a heating lamp that gets the disc up to 100-105 degrees F. And for my stylus I am using brand new tungsten stylus from here: https://ebay.to/2NC0tH0
Before getting my blank discs I attempted a test cut on a CD and had limited success. I was able to hear what I was cutting faintly. The strange thing now is that I am cutting into my discs and although the cuts/grooves look normal, when I go to playback it is nothing but noise/static and not audible what I was attempting to cut. I have listened closely to the needle while it is not cutting and can hear the playback gently (which makes me believe it is working). I have a suspicion that the needle's angle and the way it is cutting/dragging on the hard surface (though heated up!) is creating surface noise that overwhelms anything coming through the stylus.
Does anyone have any experience with this and could help identify what I may be doing wrong? I'm dumbfounded to have had more luck on a CD on a whim than I have yet to on the real deal. Any feedback is appreciated!
I have a Rek O Kut M12 lathe and I'm using a Dayton amplifier (I'm pretty sure I purchased it off someone who researched here). Anyway I have everything up and running, I am using these blanks for testing purposes: https://ebay.to/2XB0Arc
For disc prep, I used Turtle wax and buffed with a microfiber cloth. I have a heating lamp that gets the disc up to 100-105 degrees F. And for my stylus I am using brand new tungsten stylus from here: https://ebay.to/2NC0tH0
Before getting my blank discs I attempted a test cut on a CD and had limited success. I was able to hear what I was cutting faintly. The strange thing now is that I am cutting into my discs and although the cuts/grooves look normal, when I go to playback it is nothing but noise/static and not audible what I was attempting to cut. I have listened closely to the needle while it is not cutting and can hear the playback gently (which makes me believe it is working). I have a suspicion that the needle's angle and the way it is cutting/dragging on the hard surface (though heated up!) is creating surface noise that overwhelms anything coming through the stylus.
Does anyone have any experience with this and could help identify what I may be doing wrong? I'm dumbfounded to have had more luck on a CD on a whim than I have yet to on the real deal. Any feedback is appreciated!
Re: RekOKut M12 Surface Noise Issue
Hate to say it but those blanks are probably the problem. I would suggest buying clear blanks from tragwag, or clear or black blanks from Piaptk. Also you'll get instantly better results using the Piaptk embossing sapphires, that will also eliminate any worries about cutting angle.
You can get the tungsten cones to work with the proper angle (20-30 degrees) but you need a smoother & softer disc. I think the ones you have are mainly for cutting.
You can get the tungsten cones to work with the proper angle (20-30 degrees) but you need a smoother & softer disc. I think the ones you have are mainly for cutting.
Re: RekOKut M12 Surface Noise Issue
Thank you for your input. I appreciate it! I was just in touch with Piaptk and plan on making an order soon. Can you help me understand what the problem is with these blanks? I also am having a touch time determining if I should be embossing or cutting. If I use a cone stylus it is embossing but if I use saphire or diamond it is cutting correct? I might have to save up for a saphire styluslofiaudio wrote:Hate to say it but those blanks are probably the problem. I would suggest buying clear blanks from tragwag, or clear or black blanks from Piaptk. Also you'll get instantly better results using the Piaptk embossing sapphires, that will also eliminate any worries about cutting angle.
You can get the tungsten cones to work with the proper angle (20-30 degrees) but you need a smoother & softer disc. I think the ones you have are mainly for cutting.
all feedback is greatly appreciated! sorry for being a newb
Re: RekOKut M12 Surface Noise Issue
No problem, based on having seen these blanks on eBay auction (linked in post above) and the source mentioned, they are using a harder pvc plastic medium than used by most. If you read the auction closely and search the source here you'll see a few others have come to the same conclusion. Again, just for the specific case mentioned here, embossing with tungsten cones on these blanks I have direct experience that it does not work where other material works just fine.
Re cutting vs embossing, the Piaptk embossing sapphires are milled for that exact purpose, embossing. If you're planning on cutting plastic, it is said that you should buy diamond stylus and blanks from myshank. The original sapphire cutting sytli are for cutting acetate lacquers which is a different process.
Re cutting vs embossing, the Piaptk embossing sapphires are milled for that exact purpose, embossing. If you're planning on cutting plastic, it is said that you should buy diamond stylus and blanks from myshank. The original sapphire cutting sytli are for cutting acetate lacquers which is a different process.
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swagsilewski
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Fri May 25, 2018 5:32 pm
Re: RekOKut M12 Surface Noise Issue
Hi,
Just wanted to post a followup on my original post.
Things are going way better recently. I didn't wind up making any mechanical changes to the platter for fear that I would go to far with them and be in a worse situation. I did do a hearty de-rust on the cup that holds the platter in place which helped immensely. Turns out there is a ball bearing in the base of the cup that was rusted to the surface.
The second source of noise, I think I can attribute entirely to my bad memory. I'm not sure why I though it was okay to emboss on blank CDRs, but that's what I was doing. Once I switched to poly-carbonate blanks the sound quality improved immensely. I've been using goo-gone on the blanks after removing the plastic, followed by washing the blank with warm water. While the disk is on the lathe I heat it up to between 100 and 110 F and go to town.
I'm still getting a decent amount of popping and clicking though. I'm gonna experiment with trying to increase the angle of the needle and using a beeswax cream on the surface to try and reduce this unwanted noise and report back.
Any other suggestions for pop/click reduction would be welcome!
Just wanted to post a followup on my original post.
Things are going way better recently. I didn't wind up making any mechanical changes to the platter for fear that I would go to far with them and be in a worse situation. I did do a hearty de-rust on the cup that holds the platter in place which helped immensely. Turns out there is a ball bearing in the base of the cup that was rusted to the surface.
The second source of noise, I think I can attribute entirely to my bad memory. I'm not sure why I though it was okay to emboss on blank CDRs, but that's what I was doing. Once I switched to poly-carbonate blanks the sound quality improved immensely. I've been using goo-gone on the blanks after removing the plastic, followed by washing the blank with warm water. While the disk is on the lathe I heat it up to between 100 and 110 F and go to town.
I'm still getting a decent amount of popping and clicking though. I'm gonna experiment with trying to increase the angle of the needle and using a beeswax cream on the surface to try and reduce this unwanted noise and report back.
Any other suggestions for pop/click reduction would be welcome!