Building Own Cutter (was "A couple more newbie questions.")

[virgil]

Original title: "A couple more newbie questions."

My first post didn't really generate any responses, but I am hoping a couple of simple, basic questions may get some answers. I've decided to go ahead with designing and building my own cutter. I am largely basing my plans off of other cutters I have seen online.

1. When creating a cutting head, which speaker is the left and which is the right? My idea is that the speaker that will create the "left" sound in the finished product is the one toward the outside of the spinning record, while the "right" one is inside, toward the label. Is that correct?

2. I understand cutters should have some type of suspension system. I am assuming this is meant to go underneath the turntable. Could you please give me a brief description of the purpose and general principles involved in setting up such a suspension?

3. How does one heat a stylus, and what materials are recommended to be used as a stylus?

4. How should the stylus be mounted on the cutter head? I am aware that you cannot simply glue one on but I am a little fuzzy on exactly the principles involved in building that portion of it.

5. Is it better to have a turntable mounted to pan underneath a stationary cutter head, or have a stationary turntable and a panning cutter head?

I realize that these are probably dumb questions to experts on the matter, but please be patient with me, as I am new to this and hoping to glean lots of information from those who possess it!

[Steve E.]

oh wow.

Welcome.

I have never built such a system from scratch. There are several people on the forum who have. Look around in the Experimenters' Forum, especially, and maybe in "Cutters and their work." Some of these questions will be answered very quickly by observing the work of others.

These are fine questions, especially if you have no access to a lathe and have never see one work. They do, however, make me wonder why you are starting SO much from scratch. It is the definition of "reinventing the wheel." You have 150 years of experiments and the technology of others to draw upon. I would recommend reverse engineering by active, physical engagement with an existing system if you are going to try to build a new system, especially a stereo one (which is far more complex than mono).

Check out DjMikiRia's posts for an example of a stereo system truly built from scratch. There are others around here, too.

[virgil]

Thanks for the response, Steve!

These are fine questions, especially if you have no access to a lathe and have never see one work. They do, however, make me wonder why you are starting SO much from scratch.

The reason I have settled on building my own cutter is that I am uncertain about purchasing and restoring one. I cannot really afford to buy an already-restored cutter, and while I would be happy buying a decent one for $200 or so, I'm not sure what is involved in restoring one, both in regard to cost and knowledge. I have common sense and some mechanical knowledge, but I have never really worked much on electronics, other than very simple projects or repairs. If the path to restoring a lathe is not too costly or unusually complex (I am more than willing to take the time to learn about restoring them, but I do not have a solid foundation of similar experiences to build on), then I would much prefer that option to building one!

My other concern with a prebuilt lathe is what seems to be a scarcity of ones that cut at 33 1/3. Since my ultimate goal is to get together some original music on one or several discs and distribute them independently, I would prefer to be able to fit as much on a single disc as possible.

especially a stereo one (which is far more complex than mono).

I'm actually not that concerned about having a stereo setup. Truthfully, I would prefer mono, but many of the home built cutters I have seen online have two speakers, so I was just using that as a template.

Thanks again for the response! Like I said, I'm just embarking on my record cutting journey, so I am looking to you guys for your expert knowledge!

[piaptk]

You aren't getting a lot of responses, because, honestly, these questions have been asked and answered on here dozens of times... Your best bet is to spend a LOT of time just reading through the forum and the lathetrolls wiki. Using the search function for specific questions helps as well.

There is a lot to this hobby, SOOO much that it would be impossible to really sum it up in a few posts (though there are some older newbie posts on here that have a ton of info in single threads..).

[opcode66]

Not much you can do with your budget of $200. Just being realistic. Even if you went the path of a homebrew. That also may be why you're not getting a lot of responses. If you are serious about all this then I suggest two additional steps to what has already been suggested.

1. Save every penny
2. Eat a lot of Raman
3. Read books

There are a few old ones in pdf floating about and linked here on the subject of disc recording. You should also track down a copy of the AES anthology on disc recording. It has a red cover. Be prepared to brush up on your math and physics.

Here is the basic disc cutting equation

Your Results = Your Investment

If you want to raise one, you must raise the other.

[virgil]

Hmm... you guys have got me thinking.

I think I am going to shift my focus now. Being an individual who is short on both time and money but with a surplus of desire to cut records, I think I may start working on record cutter designs for an amateur. This is not to fly in the face of those who spend lots and lots of resources on restoring, building, or understanding cutters. This is simply out of frugality and practicality.

If I am able to get discernible sound from the cutter I built using the "CDRecord" design by mbarry on YouTube, made in a couple of hours with homemade materials, who's to say that, through improvements in design and quality of materials, even without knowing ALL of the science involved and doing extensive research, I may not be able to produce higher-quality, listenable cuts? Keep in mind that my overall goal is to put some original music on a record and distribute them locally. However, I do not aim to create studio-quality sound on these records. I am actually enthralled by lo-fi recordings, and I think homemade music cut onto plastic plates is pretty much the embodiment of that idea.

So what do you guys think? I realize you are experts at what you do and have put a lot of time, money, and effort into this hobby, and so I do not want you to think that I am trying to diminish the impressiveness and importance of what you do. I am simply trying to work toward an achievable goal for someone with very little time or money at hand and plenty of desire to cut records. Do you guys see where I'm coming from? Do you see any importance in allowing this hobby to spread to those who may not have the resources to delve into it at quite the extent most of you have?

Discuss.

[markrob]

Hi,

There's no doubt you'll be able to cobble something together that will record some sound. The devil is in the details. If you are good with you hands and can improvise using stuff available from the local big box hardware store, you might just get there on the cheap. It does help to understand the science behind the process. This will only cost you in time doing research here and on-line. The better you understand things, the more easily you can figure out how to improve the sound.

Are you aware of the Kits from Gakken?

http://makezine.com/2008/11/13/building-the-gakken-cup-p/
or
http://gizmodo.com/5465700/record-your-own-records-with-gakkens-gramophone-kit

Might be a good place to start. Even if you don't purchase the kit, you could gain some insight needed to roll you own. Remember, Edison's first recorder used no electronics and recoreded onto tim foil.


Mark

[virgil]

Thank you so much, Mark!

I remember having seen the Gakken kit online a LOOONG time ago when I had first looked into record cutting. I remembered it recently but couldn't seem to find it anywhere as I wasn't exactly sure how to search for it. I am almost definitely going to order the gramophone one.

I think you seem to understand where I'm coming from. I am more than happy to work toward understanding the science behind cutting records, and I understand that it is necessary to improve the quality of recordings. However, with only a little, mostly irrelevant knowledge in the way of a foundation in science in math, my delving into that aspect of it will probably be limited.

The common theme in responses to my posts seems to be that the more you put into cutting, the more you will get out (in respect to quality). I understand and agree with this, and as I am not seeking to get much out (again, in respect to audio quality), I am thus seeking a way where I don't have to put much in. To reiterate, this is not out of laziness or disrespect for the intricacies of the process- it is merely out of practicality.

Thanks again for the response and encouragement. I think of Edison whenever I am reading posts on this forum and feel overwhelmed by the foreignness of some of the information. Little by little, though, I think I am taking steps in a direction that I am comfortable with.

[tragwag]

have you heard someone else's cuts before?
here's a link to the results I get with my Presto 6N - 1D head/92 series amp (tube)
http://tragwag.bandcamp.com/track/lathe-cut-sample-caddywhompus-absinthesizer

maybe knowing what other people can accomplish will help you with your own search for a cutting setup.
I know Mike (PIAPTK) has a ton of samples on his site too: www.lathecuts.com

[Steve E.]

I still think you will end up saving both time and money if you have access to a lathe --even a trashed, broken lathe-- that you can base your designs on.