Just A few questions. (DIY, stereo)

[sacredrealm]

Hi people,

I have recently become interested in the idea of DIY lathes/records, and have a few things to learn.

Do people doing DIY cutting use polycarbonate discs (like professionals would for the test pressing) even though there might not be the intention to make vinyl pressings out of them, because its easier to cut into than doing it straight to vinyl? Or is it better quality that way? Or any other reasons like it being cheaper?
I am not against the use of polycarbonate discs or anything I just wondered about the reasons.

Also what is basically involved making the head cut in stereo? I have seen people using the two speaker heads at 45 degree angles going to one diamond stylus. Is there anything particularly complicated about it that I can't see?
Does a stereo cutting need to be a different type of groove for it to be stereo and if so how is it achieved?

I think those are my main questions for now and I'd appreciate anyone contributing answers if they have time and its not too tedious haha.

Thanks.

[powerstrip]

A few things to learn is putting it lightly. Disc cutting is a very old, vast, and mysterious trade to begin uncovering. They are aclled disc cutting engineers for a reason. Every professional system in entirely unique.

About the polycarbonate cuts - I think you may be mistaken, test pressings are actual pressings, (after masters are cut, and after plating is made) Hand-built lathe cutting is for people who want small runs of discs for cheaper than it costs for pressing, plating, and masters. And experimenting with cheaper material is easier on the wallet than buying lacquers.

Stereo cutting is something to be approached with humility and caution. It is a very much more complicated process than it seems, mono is hard enough to get correct. If the price does not scare you away ($5000 usd) The true stereo heads are very complex and very hard to get right. (Two audio channels, two feedback signals, heater current, and protection channels) They are similar in design to the heads you see on youtube but they are not to be reckoned with.

I would get very comfortable with the concept of mono cutting. I am.

If you're really into lathe cutting you have to be ready for it. I almost gave up in the first year due to problems I was having.

Plus they are hard to find.

[sacredrealm]

Right, I see. Thanks for you're thoughts/information.

Yes, I was putting it lightly really haha.
But its something I enjoy learning more about.
And I suppose I have to start somewhere even if it makes me look silly.

I wouldn't expect to get the results I want anytime soon or anything if I tried it. But anythings possible.

And when it does work it must be satisfying. The process is magical to me.

About the heads, does anyone know of any kind of guides to help or has everyone just done it through personal experience?

[sacredrealm]

About the record materials as well I'd be interested to know if any has an advantage is sound quality?

[petermontg]

Flozki has the caurso stereo head he designed, but flo has been around for long time. It is not something you pick up over night. Find a mono head and rip it apart (presto or audax) and understand how it works.

It takes years of research even before someone will let you loose on a system.

Find someone close to you ,pay a visit. Help them out if they need it.

[tragwag]

as for your materials question, there are many options which have to do with the intended result.
Professionally, master lacquers are cut with a ruby/sapphire stylus to then be plated and pressed at a pressing plant.
these lacquers are never played, because the grooves deteriorate quickly when played.

the same cutting process may be used on a slightly different formula of disc, which will hold up to more plays.
these are called 'lacquer dubs'

both lacquer masters, and dubs are on the expensive side, it doesn't make financial sense to cut these discs and try to sell them as merchandise. they are for special purposes. (usually pressing)

as an alternative to the master, or dub, DIY cutters have started to use polycarbonate discs.
they are cheaper, yet they are sold in sheets and must be cut out by CNC, or other methods.
polycarbonate discs are unlike lacquer masters, or PVC pressed records.
they can be successfully 'impressed' or 'embossed' with steel, or sapphire stylus.
it's a very new process, that has little substantiation, except that it works.
even more recently, some folks have begun to actually cut these polycarbonate discs with diamond stylus.

The material used has to do with the final intention.
please feel free to chime in with any thoughts.

[piaptk]

Small correction: lacquer dubs are the same formula as lacquer masters, except that they essentially "factory seconds", that for some small cosmetic flaw couldnt pass the extremely strict quality control at Apollo. The reference lites (which they dont make any more) are wht i think Tragwag was referring to.

You can use polycarbonate, picnic plates, laserdiscs, cdrs, acrylic, etc to make records. They all hve their different methods, and different results.

You probably have a million questions, but every one of them has been answered 20 times on this forum and on the lathe trolls wiki. I highly recommend you spend a couple of weeks reading old threads here. Start by searching "newbie" and reading those threads.

The more you learn, the more you will realize how much more you need to learn.

[sacredrealm]

Thanks for your replies.

So no one ever actually cuts directly to the vinyl material used in the pro world to press the records from laquers?
I assumed because the material is harder to cut to?

Yeah I understand. I did try using the search first but I must have used it wrongly.
Apologies if you're tired of questions like mine when they've been answered and feel free to delete my thread or anything if it takes up unnecessary space haha..

[sacredrealm]

I did use the search engine here correctly this time and found some helpful things also, thanks.

[Cubed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbTPKCtdhSA

I found this helpful as well when I decided to get into this

[tragwag]

So no one ever actually cuts directly to the vinyl material used in the pro world to press the records from laquers?
I assumed because the material is harder to cut to?

There are very few people that do it, simply because the PVC (vinyl) used for pressed records is much harder than lacquers.
The machines we use to cut records were created to cut lacquers.
To use any other material, something must be changed in the machine.
The diamond stylus, originally developed for cutting copper blanks for DMM (direct metal mastering)
is being used by some (I mean very few) to cut on PVC vinyl blanks.
These diamond stylus cost upwards of $350, while a sapphire stylus is closer to $100

[sacredrealm]

Yeah, I see.

Do you think 20 watt tweeters from a TV would be good to use in a cutting head?

Is it usual for DIY cutters to cut lead-in/lead-out grooves into their records? And does that require changing speed? I.E starting the cut faster for the lead in?

And do many DIYers use a small vacuum to sweep up bits of records too?

[opcode66]

HEY EVERYONE!

I sell better quality diamond styli in Neumann 320 shanks for $280 shipping included. My next batch will include Presto style shanks.

That is a lot cheaper than $350 plus shipping from Europe.

Please keep us in mind!

[sacredrealm]

Speaking of styli, is the cutting stylus a different thing to the styli for playing records I can see on ebay? Or are they the same, but just sharpened?

Also, what kind of speed in general would you want the cutting head arm to move across the record at?
And how powerful would the motor controlling it need to be?

[opcode66]

Very different. Not even close to the same thing. In the shape/size/configuration of the stone or in the metal part that holds the stone.

[sacredrealm]

Right yeah. So are cutting styli more rare to find on somewhere like ebay?

[opcode66]

You can find sapphire cutting styli on eBay. They are typically old new stock or used. You will typically not find diamond ever.

[sacredrealm]

OK. What might you search for to find them? Because I haven't found any CUTTING styli so far.

[opcode66]

It is not an item you will ALWAYS find on eBay.

You can buy them here all the time. http://apollomasters.com/

[sacredrealm]

Oh, that's handy then. Thanks.