Reversing an aquarium vacuum pump

[jeffthompson]

My (rather quick) research is that the high-end lathes use gum rubber tubing, like this from McMaster. I bought some, but the walls were too thick for my 3/16" ID setup. I'm going to try the thinner-walled gum tubing next.

I think it's used because it's super flexible, low friction for chips to flow, and can easily be coated internally with baby powder. It might also be more static resistant, which I'm guessing would be good too.

[dimi751]

Hi jeff

Interesting let us know how that's works, just thought I'd mention deepgrooves mastering plastic cutting video shows latex hose being used on the vms70 for the chip pickup maybe that's another option you can try ?

I'm not sure why latex hose is good, maybe someone on the board can tells us why, but I thought I'd mention it to you.

Dimi

[Soulbear]

Hi Jeff,
Thanks for the Link regarding Pump Model/Type. Gotta be the easiest conversion ever, 5 minutes tops, but being pedantic, the valve plate is rotated 180deg not 90deg te he!. The little Mod made a nice change from my "Panel Wiring and Ground Loop Elimination" activities that seem to have kept me busy for an inordinately lengthy period of time. You guys in the States don't know how lucky you are, purchased yours for $13? Modded a APS400 which cost £35/$53ish or thereabouts, about 4 times as much. But hey, it's still relatively cheap compared to a full-size Vacuum Cleaner, and it avoids the inherent noise and of course the overheating problems associated with using a standard Vaccum Cleaner. A standard Vacuum Cleaner tends to need a constant air flow, otherwise their motors soon cook. I'm looking to use this for a Chip/Swarf Jar

Coffee Jar.png

The lids on this brand of Coffee are real heavy gauge glass C/W a really tight fitting plastic seal which only gets tighter the more vacuum is applied. I've completed drilling one hole with a ceramic/glass/tile Drill Bit so I guess it won't be any more difficult to pop a second hole through the lid using the same method. Now I'm on the lookout for some nice fittings and some Latex type tubing for testing Purposes. Thanks again for suggesting this oh so easy "Pump Hack" Jeff, I've no doubts it'll work great for Chip/Swarf removal, whether it provides enough Vacuum for use as a Platter/Disc clamping method, only time will tell eh? Soulbear

[dimi751]

Makes sense soulbear good idea !

[Soulbear]

Hi Dimi,
Second hole successfuly drilled, this Coffee Jar could have been made for this application, and the Coffee was nice and refreshing too te he!! Soulbear

[jeffthompson]

Totally right re 90º/180º! Don't think I can edit posts...

Glass is probably preferable because it will reduce static (which should, hopefully, reduce the risk of combustion). While you do get to enjoy a fresh cup of coffee I wonder if a mason jar with a metal lid would be easier to work with? I've had terrible luck drilling glass. For big holes in thin materials (like the lid of a jar), I use a stepped drill bit, which gives a really clean hole.

For anyone interested, here's the fittings and tubing I'm currently using:

• Y-fittings (for the double-inlets on the pump) – http://www.mcmaster.com/mv1439412368/#5463k721/=yks5fr
• L-fittings (for jar) – http://www.mcmaster.com/mv1439412368/#2808k52/=yks5ql
• Gum rubber tubing (thin wall, will have to test) – http://www.mcmaster.com/mv1439412368/#5546k44/=yks5xp

[Soulbear]

Hi Jeff,
Ref - Drill Bits,
I use this type:-

Drill Bit.JPG

I use the smallest drill bit in a High Speed Multi-Tool, then follow it through with the next size up if neccessary, then if I need to make the hole larger still, I have to switch to a conventional Hand-Held Pistol Drill because the chuck capacity is limited on the Multi-Tool. This method has never failed me whenever I've had to drill Tiles/Ceramics/Glass, and in 45+ years of doing D.I.Y. jobs I've never had a breakage. Touch Wood!! Soulbear

[Soulbear]

Hi Jeff,
(And of course any interested Trolls following this thread) I've just run a little test, I've not got the propper connectors, so this is based on a "Heath Robinson" rubber seal to the back of an industrial Vacuum Gauge manufactured to the relevant British and International Standards ( BS ISO 27894:2009) so it should be a pretty reliable measure. It shows that this little pump, in my case a Tetra APS 400, actually draws, as close as damn is to swearing, - .2Bar (or -3 P.S.I. in real units rather than this System Internationalle Bollocks!) Not bad, not bad at all, this has really suprised me given the low power of this unit. I've got real hopes that this is sufficient for Platter/Disc Clamping too. The total clamping force is given by the expression F = Pressure x Area (PxA). So a Platter Mat that could Double as a Gasket to the underside of the Disc to be cut, with say 8sq in of Vaccuum Area would give 24 Pounds of Clamping. I don't know for sure how much "Drag" is exerted by the Cutterhead/Stylus but surely this amount of clamping is more than adequate ain't it? Soulbear

[leo gonzalez]

nice! have you tried latex or rubber hose instead the transparent tubbing that your are using? thesecan be a bit sticky and the chip tends to get stuck there after a while.


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[jeffthompson]

soulbear – yes! I was thinking about adding a vacuum platter as well!

leo gonzalez – I got some latex tubing today. I think you're right about the potential for sticking, though the positive of transparent tubing is you can see it's happened! I will test it this week and let everyone know.

[dimi751]

Hi jeff hi soulbear

Sorry I haven't replied!

Just thinking can someone give some feedback on the aps400 pump that one seems to be the most powerfull one in the range of pumps

Jeff did you end up try the glass jar ?

Soulbear did you ever get some sleep after consuming so much coffee ?

Dimi

[cosmO_O]

Hi Dimi!

APS 400 is the biggest pump in the family.

[Soulbear]

Hi Dimi.
Yes, I've just about landed back on "Planet Earth" after all that coffee te he Just kidding, that coffee brand is one I mostly use, and I invariably re-purpose the jars as storage containers, because they are so useful once the coffee is gone. I guess it's nowadays called re-cycling, and done by lots of people with a social conscience, in the name of protecting the environment and mother earth. I've just thought for many years, that its such a shame to trash them and not to re-use such well made packaging, nothing to do with saving the planet I'm afraid to say!!. Well my Latex Tubing arrived today, and in a totally non-scientific test, I attatched the Aluminium Vacuum pipe that will be fitted to my Cutterhead and approximately 4.5x yards/4x metres of the Latex Tubing, connected the APS400 to my DIY swarf/chip jar, and Hoovered my kitchen worktops. This was after deliberately befouling them by placing various concoctions on them. The APS400 made easy work of coffee granules, flour, and granulated sugar!! It manages to pull these items into the pipe from a distance of about 3/8th of an inch or about 9.5mm if using Metric Measurement Bollocks!! I'm thinking that it should easily manage to pull in the swarf/chip, as the distance to the stylus from the nozzle opening could be made less than this distance. However, confession time, earlier in this thread I put up the specs for this baby :-

Vacuum Pump.jpg

One of these is wending its way over from Germany as I write. It's the vacuum platter clamping that has got me a little rattled, so as a failsafe, I thought of incorporating this purpose built vacuum pump into my lathe design, as this should theoretically, be more than up to the job. A belt and braces approach methinks eh? Oh the agony of choice, depends a lot on its noise levels and overall usability, decisions, decisions, decisions, keep smiling and Happy Cutting Soulbear

[rsimms3]

I had some discounts and bought a pump at the local department store but I think it's 1 size smaller than what Jeff bought, it really didn't seem to have sufficient suction. After some research I think I'll return the aquarium pump and get one of these -

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10398

I already have a PWM controller I can use to vary speed/suction of the motor and it has 1/4" connectors on it already. I also watched some videos on how to convert a small tire compressor to a vacuum pump, but figured I should buy something specifically made for the job.

[crowesBR]

Got a APS 100 and will try this weekend with my Presto 6N.

[Kiss the Groove]

Soulbear, is that 3 psi figure for static vacuum (sealed jar), or is it with the chip suction flowing? If it's the static vacuum, then I'm wondering how much it drops with chip suction, which would lower the available platter clamping force. Thanks.

Regards -- KtG

[Soulbear]

Hi KTG,
Yup, as you've rightly surmised, the reading of -3PSI was with the System "Closed" which I'm thinking (Barring Leaks) would be the condition when Clamping a Disc to the Platter once a seal is made. This is an area of research which I have at present abandoned but will most definitely have to revisit.
Regards Soulbear

[crowesBR]

OK. Just tried.

For sure the Tetra APS 100 did not work.

Not enough power to get the swarf from a diamond (shank blank and heated lamp).

2mm near the stylus.

Just tried and no way to get the swarf all the way.

Got first 5 seconds and that's it. Used of baby powder of course. , Latex tubbing both ways .

Will try with the APS 400 next.

Will keep you posted

Anderson