Deep Grooves Mastering - Project Bladerunner

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opcode66
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Re: Deep Grooves Mastering - Project Bladerunner

Post: # 40353Unread post opcode66
Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:12 am

I learned to machine nylon bar stock today. I'm going to have a head to head comparison made between nylon and aluminum bobbins in 2 Presto 1D's. More to follow.
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Stevie342000
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Re: Deep Grooves Mastering - Project Bladerunner

Post: # 40355Unread post Stevie342000
Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:29 am

opcode66 wrote:I learned to machine nylon bar stock today. I'm going to have a head to head comparison made between nylon and aluminum bobbins in 2 Presto 1D's. More to follow.
Just an opinion the metal will alter the thermal dynamics of the cutter and may allow you cut at hotter levels. The nylon may melt and deform, personally I would go with the metal, as long as the extra weight did not change the characteristics of the cutter head too much, I suspect they will.

I do not have the equipment to measure it or to do a comparison between a stock head on test and on test cut discs, re-wound head on NOS bobbin or on new bobbin types it is a lot of work. But it may help people to make choices if they need an upgrade or a rewind. :wink:

Some interesting outcomes and observations were made on the full Grampian Replica testing done by Bryan.

It may not be an area you want to get into right now in your journey of discovery in machining parts but may be worthwhile revisiting.

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opcode66
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Re: Deep Grooves Mastering - Project Bladerunner

Post: # 40356Unread post opcode66
Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:32 am

Here you can see one of my early test pieces for the torque tube for Bladerunner. This is by no means what the production parts will look like. I simply wanted to demonstrate that I am capable of making a nice straight hole in round steel bar stock. The hole is perfectly perpendicular to the round bar. I've ordered a Tapered Reamer. Once it finally arrives from UK I'll be able to make a properly tapered 320 stylus holder hole. The final torque tube assembly consists of several precision machines pieces that go together and lock with a brass pin. The V spring is being fabricated from spring steel. More to come soon. This is an aweful lot to learn in a short period of time. Up until December of 2015 I knew exactly nothing anout metalwork, machining, millig or using a CNC....
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opcode66
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Re: Deep Grooves Mastering - Project Bladerunner

Post: # 40360Unread post opcode66
Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:50 am

Stevie342000 wrote:
opcode66 wrote:I learned to machine nylon bar stock today. I'm going to have a head to head comparison made between nylon and aluminum bobbins in 2 Presto 1D's. More to follow.
Just an opinion the metal will alter the thermal dynamics of the cutter and may allow you cut at hotter levels. The nylon may melt and deform, personally I would go with the metal, as long as the extra weight did not change the characteristics of the cutter head too much, I suspect they will.

I do not have the equipment to measure it or to do a comparison between a stock head on test and on test cut discs, re-wound head on NOS bobbin or on new bobbin types it is a lot of work. But it may help people to make choices if they need an upgrade or a rewind. :wink:

Some interesting outcomes and observations were made on the full Grampian Replica testing done by Bryan.

It may not be an area you want to get into right now in your journey of discovery in machining parts but may be worthwhile revisiting.
I appreciate your input. However, I think I am well beyond all that. Cheers though!

Nylon's melting point is 220 C. The gauge of enameled wire used for doing these recoils has a melting point of 155 C. The coil will destroy itself and start to cool well before the Nylon will melt. So, that is not an issue. A little googling will confirm this.

Though it is true that aluminum dissipates heat that may be good or bad. I actually don't feel like explaining why it could be bad. Purchase and read my ebook when published to find out why...

Aluminum will act as a 1 turn coil. High frequencies will have an eddie current effect in the aluminum bobbin. The eddie current creates a em field in opposition to the drive coil. In a moving coil system this inhibits the motion of the coil. It is like driving your car with the parking break on. The highs suffer a lot. To fix this you can put a slice into the bobbin. But, that would seriously compromise the integrity of these bobbins because of their shape. But, in the Preto, it is a moving Iron, not a moving Coil. So, I'm not sure it will really have an effect. The coils are not moving. The eddie current flux will diminish some of the drive coil flux, but, not much.

I have had 5 of these heads here. One was just a cleaning and replacing of the wire. Spectral comparisons between the head I onlh rewired vs a head I recoiled with aluminum bobbins showed no major differece in frequency response. There was a difference in overall level which I attribute to magnet difference in stength between the two heads.

I'll have some nice screw clones finished tomorrow now that I have the correct dies. Pictures to follow. Dampers will be cloned this week. I'm going to try a magnetizer to recharge some old horseshoe magnets and see if that is viable. I purchased an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner to clean all the internal parts and screws thoroughly. And, I'm going to try cloning the spring pins this week. I suspect those are worn on a number of heads causing them to sound dull and have low end emphasis.
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Re: Deep Grooves Mastering - Project Bladerunner

Post: # 40361Unread post Stevie342000
Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:10 am

What you decide to share is up to you I was merely making observations that those who like ourselves are not so far along the track in understanding or in the principles of electro-magnetics and magnetic fields. Who may not have been aware of melting points or the interactions of differing materials when fabricating replacement parts or modelling parts different to the original design in a magnetic field.

Besides I did not have to look up the information, you gave it freely :wink: I had figured that the coil would blow before either the bobbins would melt or burn up.

Yes I was being lazy, but your progress in metal working has been rapid just shows what anyone can do when they put their mind to it. However unlike in the days when the Presto heads were being machined by hand, today many of the process can or are automated. You still have to know how to set the machine to get the results you need, it is still not easy just easier.

But these are just discoveries to the side of the main deal here your new stereo all metal cutter head. But an interesting diversion non the less.

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Re: Deep Grooves Mastering - Project Bladerunner

Post: # 40362Unread post opcode66
Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:01 am

Stevie342000 wrote:What you decide to share is up to you I was merely making observations that those who like ourselves are not so far along the track in understanding or in the principles of electro-magnetics and magnetic fields. Who may not have been aware of melting points or the interactions of differing materials when fabricating replacement parts or modelling parts different to the original design in a magnetic field.
Of course. I hope you understand, all I was saying is that I share a tremendous amount here. And, for the volume of things that I share, there is an equal amount I don't share. In fact, there is a huge volume of information I don't even hint at. So, rest assured, if you do in fact purchase one of my books, you won't be disappointed! :D
Stevie342000 wrote:The nylon may melt and deform, personally I would go with the metal
This lead me to believe you did think that Nylon would melt.
Stevie342000 wrote:Besides I did not have to look up the information, you gave it freely :wink: I had figured that the coil would blow before either the bobbins would melt or burn up.
Now you say the opposite. And, yes, I give out a lot of accurate information. What people choose to do with it is up to them. 8)
Stevie342000 wrote:Yes I was being lazy, but your progress in metal working has been rapid just shows what anyone can do when they put their mind to it.
I don't think that just anyone could achieve all that I've achieved in the same period of time. I have picked up something that to others is a vocation within a month with zero mentoring. I've concurrently learned how to use CAM software and generate gcode for machine operations on a CNC and learned how to actually operate the machine and work with plastic and metal. I've additionally learned how to do the Presto Cutterhead Repairs and have worked out a repeatable pattern and started cloning parts. I've got 1/3 of the metal parts for Bladerunner finished and the torque tubes are nearly done. I had family time over Christmas. I've picked up a programming contract. Is that really what anybody could do???? Hmmmm.
Stevie342000 wrote:However unlike in the days when the Presto heads were being machined by hand, today many of the process can or are automated. You still have to know how to set the machine to get the results you need, it is still not easy just easier.
I'm making the screws and bobbins by hand because I don't have a computer control of my metal lathe. The dampers will be cut on my CNC machine. So, those will be automated production. Everything else will be the good old fashioned way. I do have DRO's on my metal lathe. That helps a lot.
Stevie342000 wrote:But these are just discoveries to the side of the main deal here your new stereo all metal cutter head. But an interesting diversion non the less.
It is necessary work. No one else is really reliably doing it right now. There are a lot of broken heads.

The biggest benefit to metal is that if a coil is blown, the bobbin could be endlessly reused. The original bobbins are made from a material that becomes very brittle over the years. Most of them chip or break apart upon being removed. You would need to be overly gentle and cautious to rewind them. So, why bother... That is my opinion. Nylon is durable enough. No eddies hanging about. Heat is fine. So, why not?
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Greg Reierson
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Re: Deep Grooves Mastering - Project Bladerunner

Post: # 40381Unread post Greg Reierson
Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:15 pm

opcode66 wrote:A number of folks here would disagree with you. This is refreshing. Thanks.
Dude, keep rockin' the boat. That's how new things happen.
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Kiss the Groove
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Re: Deep Grooves Mastering - Project Bladerunner

Post: # 40390Unread post Kiss the Groove
Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:33 pm

Opcode66, do you plan to saw a slot across those aluminum forms, maybe on the side opposite the wire-start hole? It seems to me that such a massive shorted turn is going to waste a lot of your coil drive power as heat, whether the coil is moving or not.

Regards -- KtG

P.S. It's eddy current, not eddie, although the plural is eddies.

“Eddies,” said Ford, “in the space-time continuum.”
“Ah,” nodded Arthur, “is he? Is he?”
-- Douglas Adams, Life, the Universe and Everything

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Re: Deep Grooves Mastering - Project Bladerunner

Post: # 40391Unread post Stevie342000
Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:55 pm

Kiss the Groove wrote:Opcode66, do you plan to saw a slot across those aluminum forms, maybe on the side opposite the wire-start hole? It seems to me that such a massive shorted turn is going to waste a lot of your coil drive power as heat, whether the coil is moving or not.

Regards -- KtG

P.S. It's eddy current, not eddie, although the plural is eddies.

“Eddies,” said Ford, “in the space-time continuum.”
“Ah,” nodded Arthur, “is he? Is he?”
-- Douglas Adams, Life, the Universe and Everything
So long and thanks for all the fish.

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Re: Deep Grooves Mastering - Project Bladerunner

Post: # 40879Unread post opcode66
Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:58 am

That is how I always intentionally misspell the word. To me, this is hilarious. :D This is one of my handy copies....
IMG_9361.JPG
Lots to update you all on. Here's a quick video. Also, check out my new thread here http://lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6380 about my new Mono Cutterhead Repair service. Or, check out my new web site http://cutterhead.repair

Test cut video with Bladerunner 1.J to follow soon! And, testing of the first round of successful metal parts should commence late next week.
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Re: Deep Grooves Mastering - Project Bladerunner

Post: # 41315Unread post opcode66
Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:49 pm

A couple of pictures.... I've been very busy. I've worked out cutting metal springs on the cnc. I've gone through several rounds of work on the bobbin/push rod combo. It is now a hybrid of Nylon and Brass parts both made on the metal lathe. And, finally, the piece de resistance. I can now drill clean straight holes into steel round bar as small as 0.5mm diameter. So, I can now make a correct taper for 320 stylus in a torque tube. Making ths stylus hole is by far the most difficult procedure. And, I've now accomplished the most difficult aspect. I think I've come very far in a few short months operating a metal lathe.

2 x 0.5mm straight clean holes through steel round bar
252676_10207448637286931_8649907408886784082_n.jpg
12814526_10207448637446935_4096828096164700700_n.jpg
My third torque tube which is a hybrid of plastic and metal alongside the all plastic counterpart. This is old. I can now make the hole correct and the slots for linkage completely cleanly routed.
1914794_10207440227236685_6347152279170372410_n.jpg
Last but not least.... Transducer parts. CNC cut Copper springs which also serve as EM shielding. Nylon/Brass bobbin push rod combo parts. Drive coils will be flattened enameled wire. Feedback is split coil. Compact, modular design. User replaceable.
10441165_10207447625621640_2525555504135248691_n.jpg
I'll be finishing these new transducers by week's end. Video to follow!
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sakuszi
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Re: Deep Grooves Mastering - Project Bladerunner

Post: # 41320Unread post sakuszi
Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:32 pm

drilled so thin drill? It is very difficult to drill less than 1 mm? good job !

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Re: Deep Grooves Mastering - Project Bladerunner

Post: # 41332Unread post opcode66
Tue Mar 15, 2016 4:24 am

Drilled, yes. I can also make intersecting holes 0.5mm diameter.
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Re: Deep Grooves Mastering - Project Bladerunner

Post: # 41407Unread post opcode66
Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:29 am

Not sure if everyone saw on my other thread. I can now supply precision CNC cut dampers clones for Presto 5C, 1D and 1C cutterheads.

http://cutterhead.repair
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Re: Deep Grooves Mastering - Project Bladerunner

Post: # 41420Unread post opcode66
Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:53 pm

Very close to what rhe final torque tube will look like. The metal is final. Other pieces will now be addressed. More to follow soon. I just built out my new metal/nylon/pla transducers last night. I will build the torque tube assembly tonight. Testing tomorrow or Saturday!

This is steel round rod. The stulus hole is a 1:20 taper and grips the stylus perfectly.
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Re: Deep Grooves Mastering - Project Bladerunner

Post: # 41434Unread post opcode66
Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:01 pm

Today, I CNC cut springs from Spring Steel. I made springs for the transducer and the torque tube. Final assembly of all parts starts tonight!
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Re: Deep Grooves Mastering - Project Bladerunner

Post: # 41451Unread post opcode66
Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:24 am

.
Last edited by opcode66 on Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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opcode66
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Re: Deep Grooves Mastering - Project Bladerunner

Post: # 41452Unread post opcode66
Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:28 am

I tweaked a few things on the CNC and am now getting fantastic cuts.

This is my torque tube v spring cut from spring steel.
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Cutting, Inventing & Innovating
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sakuszi
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Re: Deep Grooves Mastering - Project Bladerunner

Post: # 41453Unread post sakuszi
Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:49 am

wow! very nicely ! good job the machine! if your head works well, buy! I hope that you will apply a cooling gas air or another gas, from my experience, that without cooling the head very quickly burn the coil drive, I think that's why professional heads to cooling coils gas. A lot of good work Tood!
see - 3 db level 15kHz , motor DD sony 0,5 kg/ cm motor noise : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t8pbDP7H7o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o47PVGmfuBY
if your head record music , on , as my film and will have a cooling helium pay for thy head $ 2,000 a piece

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opcode66
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Re: Deep Grooves Mastering - Project Bladerunner

Post: # 41491Unread post opcode66
Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:32 pm

Helium channels to the transducer assmeblies have been usable since version 5 think. At least a year ago. I don't use helium when bench testing. I do use helium when test cutting. Heat in a coil is a result of the dimensions and the gauge mostly. The bigger the coil diameter, the less heat is an issue.

Yes, you are watching me evolve each part for the production cutterhead. http://www.mantra.audio

I've had 20 to 20k response on disc since the dynamic days. I have no issue with lack of response. I'm at the point where I have ample, which is a good thng.

Good luck with your project. Cheers.
Cutting, Inventing & Innovating
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