How do I emboss

[alienmanstk]

Hello-
I've been cutting on old acetates, experimenting, and I do already know the difference between cutting and embossing, yet I do not know how to emboss... I know that this technique can save needles, especially if one is cutting on anything besides acetate... Is it just turning the needle around? Changing the needle angle? Length?

Thanks!!!
Sam

[piaptk]

You can emboss on laserdiscs and CDs using a standard ruby needle that has been used a little while and has the tip rounded a little (not broken or chipped, just worn). You can also sharpen gramaphone needles and then tilt them to 45 degrees off the plastic, like Peter king does.

[Angus McCarthy]

As to the use of gramophone needles...

I was under the impression that old steel needles were too sharp and had to be blunted and rounded to emboss properly. Have I been going about this the wrong way? It would explain why all I manage to do is rip a horrendous gash in the disc, rather than emboss.

[piaptk]

As to the use of gramophone needles...

I was under the impression that old steel needles were too sharp and had to be blunted and rounded to emboss properly. Have I been going about this the wrong way? It would explain why all I manage to do is rip a horrendous gash in the disc, rather than emboss.

Are you tilting the head to 45 degrees? That is the only way it works, I think. Unfortunately, you can't tilt a 6n head that much.

[Angus McCarthy]

As to the use of gramophone needles...

I was under the impression that old steel needles were too sharp and had to be blunted and rounded to emboss properly. Have I been going about this the wrong way? It would explain why all I manage to do is rip a horrendous gash in the disc, rather than emboss.

Are you tilting the head to 45 degrees? That is the only way it works, I think. Unfortunately, you can't tilt a 6n head that much.

Actually my homebrew uses an Astatic M-41-8 with the needle bent at 45 degrees. I'm wondering if there's a burr of some kind on the needle, or perhaps my weight may be off somehow.

[piaptk]

As to the use of gramophone needles...

I was under the impression that old steel needles were too sharp and had to be blunted and rounded to emboss properly. Have I been going about this the wrong way? It would explain why all I manage to do is rip a horrendous gash in the disc, rather than emboss.

Are you tilting the head to 45 degrees? That is the only way it works, I think. Unfortunately, you can't tilt a 6n head that much.

Actually my homebrew uses an Astatic M-41-8 with the needle bent at 45 degrees. I'm wondering if there's a burr of some kind on the needle, or perhaps my weight may be off somehow.

PM me your address and I'll send you a few of the sharpened needles Peter King sent me. They are the same kind he uses. I can't use them.

[Angus McCarthy]

The needles just arrived from piaptk. (Thanks again!) Comparing them to raw gram needles they are much more rounded over than I had tried. First mystery solved. Now for some careful bending and we'll see how well they do plates!

[alienmanstk]

Might you be able to post pics of the needles?
Thanks so much!!!
Sam

[Angus McCarthy]

Click for full-size:



Peter King obviously started with a higher-grade needle than what I have on hand, but you can clearly see how truncated a cone it is compared to the raw gramophone needle. I suppose all I need now is a proper grind wheel to keep me in supply.

RELATED QUESTION:

I'm still working out the gearing for my transport. What would you say might be the upper-boundary for (non-automatic) pitch when embossing, considering the deformation that goes on? I was going to shoot for somewhere in the 150-180lpi range.

[alienmanstk]

Could anyone post a picture of the actual head tilted? I am toying with my wilcox gay and I can't really make sense of tilting the head 45 degrees...
any picture of this process in action or even a video would be very much appreciated!!!
Thanks!!!

[Angus McCarthy]

If your W-G has a crystal cutting head or a magnetic one like my Astatic M-41-8 you will have to actually bend the tip of the needle itself, since there is no practical way to tip back an elongated cartridge like that. Be aware, steel needles will snap when bent cold so you will have to get them red hot to make the 45* bend.

[tape]

I have an old pickup needle (maybe diamond?) that is rounded exactly as the peter king needle in the picture, but it's also bend by design and is perfect for embossing. However I only have one, and I have not been able to find out what these are calles in order to find more.

There is a picture here: http://totem.menneske.dk/batch_totem/ARCHIVE/MANUALS/BELL_RECORD_O_PHONE/Bell010.jpg
perhps a bit hard to see the bend or type of needle

[alienmanstk]

If your W-G has a crystal cutting head or a magnetic one like my Astatic M-41-8 you will have to actually bend the tip of the needle itself, since there is no practical way to tip back an elongated cartridge like that. Be aware, steel needles will snap when bent cold so you will have to get them red hot to make the 45* bend.

Thanks for the picture as well....

I'm still just unsure.... Should I bend the needle to that looking down at the recording arm, you can see the bent needle sticking out almost like a snakes tongue, or should it be bent inwards?

Thanks all for your response!
Sam

[Angus McCarthy]

The bent needle should be "dragging" along the surface of the disc, so that the tip is pointed clockwise and not towards the oncoming disc.

Think of it like holding a pencil. You hold it at an angle and pull the pencil so the tip does not skitter along the surface of the paper.

[alienmanstk]

got it! thanks!!!

[tape]

Soundscriber needle - tip and angle are pretty clear: