Dubplate shortage

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Dub Studio
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Dubplate shortage

Post: # 35177Unread post Dub Studio
Fri May 22, 2015 6:30 am

I have just been told there are no 12 inch acetate dubplates available here in the UK at the moment, and I don't want to blame anyone in particular but just wanted make a plea to get the situation sorted and wondered if any of the other trolls here feel the same way.

To be perfectly honest I find this situation is unacceptable. Dubplates are my livelihood and I am turning clients away because I can't get hold of stock here. The reason given is that dubplates are "a by-product of the master lacquer production process" and "we get what we are given".

Well, I am here to dispute that!

1) Dubplates are an essential part of the quality control process of vinyl production. Ever tried sending a 14" lacquer to a client as a reference? Of course not, it won't even play on their turntable. They need a 12" reference for a 12 inch pressing, so dubplates are a necessity, not just a handy way to get rid of messed up 12" lacquers.

2) What exactly is the point of producing 7 inch dubplates? What are they supposed to be the master lacquers for? 5" pressings? Of course not. Ergo, 7 inch dubs are made for one purpose and one purpose only, they are not a by-product, so why should 10s and 12s?

3) I pay good money for these acetates, and a lot of the time they come with bubbles, ripples, and bends and I have to chuck them, so some of this "by-product" isn't even fit for purpose as a dubplate.

4) I seem to be paying loads more than I ever used to pay for these things, and to be frank, at these prices I expect smooth, flat dubs with no bubbles.

5) I have found vintage transco dubs on ebay which are smooth, flat and completely free from bubbles. They even have a thinner, lighter substrate. Sometimes I get batches of 10 or more with not a single imperfection, so I know what can be achieved.

6) Dubplates are a thing, they always have been. Loads of companies have, over the years, made discs for one-off recording purposes - and not all of them did so because they had a load of dodgy lacquers lying around.

I guess what I am trying to say is that if you make a decision not to supply dubplates as a thing, because its not profitable enough, or its a too much of a ball ache. Fair enough. Step up and say so. But please don't patronise us dubplate cutting engineers by saying that we are just bottom feeders, helping to reduce your wastage.

Please, please, please, get dubplates into production as a thing. If it costs a little more, so be it, but leaving the process to chance is just crazy.... because the better you get at making lacquers, the fewer dubs you will have. How can that possibly work?

If it wasn't for dubplate culture, the vinyl industry would simply not be in the healthy state its in at the moment. Can you imagine what would have happened to all the lathes and presses if for the intervening period between the advent of CDs and now, no DJs ever cut dubplates, never played vinyl as a performance medium and never released their material on vinyl? What state would the industry be in now?

You owe it to dubplate culture to sort this situation out.

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emidisc
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Re: Dubplate shortage

Post: # 35185Unread post emidisc
Fri May 22, 2015 1:00 pm

I totally agree with all your comments - fortunately I don't make a living from cutting!
There definitely needs to be competition in the Dub manufacture business,
If Appollo for some reason went down the pan ? What then for the busy mastering houses?
I know there would still be MDC but they appear difficult to acquire & again expensive.

Emidisc

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jjgolden
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Re: Dubplate shortage

Post: # 35189Unread post jjgolden
Fri May 22, 2015 2:41 pm

We're all there with you. One company supporting the entire vinyl production industry...
I tried to order dubs a few weeks ago and was told they were back ordered till mid June.
I couldn't wait so we ordered 12" masters instead. I have a feeling it's going to take a catastrophe before someone else starts making lacquers.
I wish Pyral in France would start up operations again...
Vinyl demand is showing no signs of slowing down.

JJG

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The Shank
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Re: Dubplate shortage

Post: # 35193Unread post The Shank
Fri May 22, 2015 4:29 pm

Hmmm what an interesting thread here!

Pyral is a company not really far from where we are and has just been bough by an other company just one hour from here (more and more closer).

I will give a "curious guy" call next monday to know what happened and of course if something could be possible.... let's see :)

cheers,

S.
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jjgolden
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Re: Dubplate shortage

Post: # 35194Unread post jjgolden
Fri May 22, 2015 4:42 pm

Let us know how the call goes :)
I've emailed them in the past but no reply.

http://www.pyral.fr/company/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyral

Merci!
JJG

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leo gonzalez
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Re: Dubplate shortage

Post: # 35195Unread post leo gonzalez
Fri May 22, 2015 9:02 pm

ok ok ok!

hold on. you guys know dubplates are reject lacquers right?!

vinyl market up... ergo...

cheers!


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Dub Studio
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Re: Dubplate shortage

Post: # 35261Unread post Dub Studio
Tue May 26, 2015 12:52 pm

Dub plates are not always a by-product Leo...

7 inch Audiodiscs are not a by-product.

8 inch Audiodiscs were not a by-product

Apollo Reference Lites were not a by-product

etc etc etc

Sure sometimes its convenient to use rejected lacquers as dub plates, and maybe that's why people wrongly assume that all dubs are rejects, but that's simply not true, as evidenced by Apollo Masters' own website, which clearly advertises 7 inch dubs (large hole and small), for example.

Even if we ignore that evidence, logically speaking, more lacquers should equal more by-product, and more by-product should mean more dubs, right?

Wrong. But why?

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leo gonzalez
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Re: Dubplate shortage

Post: # 35262Unread post leo gonzalez
Tue May 26, 2015 3:55 pm

good effort. but no.

demand for lacquers is high and ergo quality lately seems to be on then downside...






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Dub Studio
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Re: Dubplate shortage

Post: # 35263Unread post Dub Studio
Tue May 26, 2015 4:14 pm

Thanks Leo

Seriously, is that it?

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leo gonzalez
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Re: Dubplate shortage

Post: # 35264Unread post leo gonzalez
Tue May 26, 2015 4:16 pm

yes


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Dub Studio
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Re: Dubplate shortage

Post: # 35265Unread post Dub Studio
Tue May 26, 2015 4:40 pm

Ok thanks for your input Leo. I am not sure I understand your sentiment here, but I appreciate you taking the time to give your thoughts.

I am sure there are other people here who are interested in safeguarding the supply of dub plates, and certainly a lot of my clients are very concerned.

I have always seen dub plates as a vital part of the quality control process and I can only see this having a detrimental affect on quality. Without a steady supply of reasonably priced dubs, how will we do test cuts, and train up the next generation of mastering engineers if all we have are expensive master lacquers to practice on?

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The Shank
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Re: Dubplate shortage

Post: # 35274Unread post The Shank
Wed May 27, 2015 3:36 am

After few research, Pyral wasn't the company who produced laquers. It was an other company installed in the same factory. The name was : KODAK Polychrome, then bought by an other american company
and then... closed.
All the site has been destroyed and the machinery has gone to a metal dealer...

Apollo have many beautiful days ahead...

cheers,

S.
http://www.myshank.com
skype : steven.myshank

* Diamond cutting stylus officials/prototypes
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Stevie342000
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Re: Dubplate shortage

Post: # 35277Unread post Stevie342000
Wed May 27, 2015 10:03 am

The Shank wrote:After few research, Pyral wasn't the company who produced laquers. It was an other company installed in the same factory. The name was : KODAK Polychrome, then bought by an other american company
and then... closed.
All the site has been destroyed and the machinery has gone to a metal dealer...

Apollo have many beautiful days ahead...

cheers,

S.
I thought at one point recently Pyral had a fire and that was why they stopped production. But I have a feeling that they have gone back into tape manufacturing if not lacquer disks as well.

But not sure of any of that for certain. it may have been some time back.

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jjgolden
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Re: Dubplate shortage

Post: # 35279Unread post jjgolden
Wed May 27, 2015 11:33 am

Maybe there would be some documentation left somewhere. Lacquer compound formulations, manuals, procedures etc.?
@MyShank, Did you speak with someone?

JJG

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The Shank
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Re: Dubplate shortage

Post: # 35280Unread post The Shank
Wed May 27, 2015 11:38 am

jjgolden wrote: @MyShank, Did you speak with someone?

JJG
Yes, with Pyral.
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jjgolden
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Re: Dubplate shortage

Post: # 35282Unread post jjgolden
Wed May 27, 2015 11:53 am

Thanks,

They're location used to be at:
47 rue L' Echat 94001 Creteil.
Apparently that's where they were manufactured?
I have a few old boxes of Pyral Lacquers with that address on them.

JJG

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The Shank
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Re: Dubplate shortage

Post: # 35283Unread post The Shank
Wed May 27, 2015 11:55 am

jjgolden wrote:Thanks,

They're location used to be at:
47 rue L' Echat 94001 Creteil.
Apparently that's where they were manufactured?
I have a few old boxes of Pyral Lacquers with that address on them.

JJG
Pyral moved from Creteil in 1985 to Avranches.
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Re: Dubplate shortage

Post: # 35284Unread post jjgolden
Wed May 27, 2015 12:01 pm

That's good to know, thanks for the info!

JJG

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Dub Studio
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Re: Dubplate shortage

Post: # 35285Unread post Dub Studio
Wed May 27, 2015 12:20 pm

Yes, great info! Who knows something might come of that, but I think Pyral sold their rights, and so there might be nothing they can do anyway.

I think it makes more sense to focus on existing manufacturers, perhaps with a view to establishing how much of a demand there is likely to be for dub plates in the future, both in Europe and Stateside. Clearly if there is a demand for dubs, the supply should aim to meet that demand.

I know my studio needs them, and also another cutting house in Bristol, and that's just one city in one country...

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opcode66
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Re: Dubplate shortage

Post: # 35288Unread post opcode66
Wed May 27, 2015 2:07 pm

I see so few 10" pressings. 12" Master are purportedly for 10" pressings. Given these two facts, the idea that 12" dubs are actually failed 12" Master Lacquers is illogical. Having this much failed 12" Masters which are rebranded as 12 Dubs would only make sense if there were a preponderance of 10" pressings. That simply is not the case. Last 10" pressing I saw was made over 8 years ago. Not saying there are zero. But there are way way more 12" pressings. If we are to believe that 12" Dubs are failed 12" Masters, then I would cringe to think how many failed 14" Master they must obviously throw away since there are no 14" Dubs for sale.

Food for thought.

The coating machines are very similar to those used to coat chocolate on candies. I'm fairly certain you could modify a candy coating machine to make lacquers. Any chemist worth their degree could make a compound for us... All it takes is money folks. If enough of us wanted to start a co-op we could produce our own styli and lacquers.
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