Neumann Controller Box Mod

[concretecowboy71]

Just got a controller box for a Neumann lathe and it is a 45rpm - 12" box.

What is the process for modifying these so they can be used for multiple sizes. I would like to do that for this box.

[opcode66]

It is not that hard. You need a 4 Pole 3 Position switch. Once you have that it is easily wired in. Order one. I'll post the wire mod specifics in a bit.

[opcode66]

Clint,

Ok, so, you need a 4 pole 3 position rotary switch. I got mine from http://www.digikey.com. If you need I can lookup the part number.

Open the box by removing the four screws on top. You need to solder a number of wires into the box. So, it is good to have some label stickers for the wires. I cut mine, stripped the ends, tinned the ends and labeled them numerically.

I then soldered the wires in one by one. Group them, cable tied them and soldered them to the poles on the switch. You will need to modify your case. I simply drilled a half circle hole in the bottom of the side of the case and have the wires coming out freely. The switch is floating free outside of the case. Eventually, I will build a housing for the switch to go in and attach that to the side of the case to make it pretty.

Below is the image of the schematic for the PS66. You can see on the schematic in the upper right the mod has been described for you. A simpler version of the mod is at the bottom if you only want to switch between 7" and 12". I made both my 33.3 and 45 boxes switch all three diameters.

On the diagram where it says ZT3011, 3012 and 3013. Those are the cables that go to the fixed femail tuchels in the well where the programmer goes. The corresponding male tuchels on the programmer are PS 3011, 3012, 3013. The circuit boards that connect to each male tuchel are labeled 3011, 3012 and 3013 (etched onto the board). You can see on the diagram it is split in the middle. This represents the male and female tuchels that connect. Everything on the bottom describes what circuitry is connected for the various diameters and speeds. Note that the original boxes only did one speed and diameter. So, if you wanted to build a 12" 78RPM box you could use the connections and components specified in the very bottom row.

The schamtic drawing below the ZT3011 etc. is a general drawing applicable to all sizes and speeds. You either make or break connections depending on the row for the speed and diamenter you want. And, you use parts of the values specified in the row, arranged in the fashion displayed in the schematic above.

Overall, this is a fairly complex diagram. But, once you learn to read it, it makes perfect sense. All you need to do for the mod is make different connections. Essentially it all has to do with lead in lead out groove start points. Those are determined by the microswithes in the back of the lathe. This mod determines which switch is actually sending signals. Also, the mode makes the appropriate indicator lamp light up. That's about it.

[cohearent]

Hi Guys,

Opcode you nailed it, but a few comments for the newbies. You can make these so called programmers switch diameters, but not speeds, at least not conveniently. In addition to turntable speed it would have to switch lockoff length and safety groove etc. which means changing capacitors and it would be a BUNCH of poles on a switch, which probably wouldn't fit anyway!
I put my switch in the bottom of the box , between the Tuchel connectors, which means having to pull it, to change. No big deal, and the lights tell you how you have it switched. The only warning is that if it is going into a 66 the shaft has to be VERY short to clear. I cut it to 1/4" and filed a notch to make it a screw driver adjustment. In a 70 I think they raised the base that holds the mating connectors so there is more depth for a small knob.

Best,

Kev

[opcode66]

I am working on a box that can switch between all speeds and sizes. It uses a lot photocoupler photorelays to change the circuit paths for the various ins and outs on the three tuchels. When you change the two knobs (one for diameter, one for speed) a pic chip swtiches various strings of these photorelays in order to hook up the right things to the input/output pins. Since I'm supporting all five speeds, I have 5 x the components of a normal box.

FYI Kevin, I've seen a number of people just drill a small hole int he side of programmer shell. Then feed the wires through there. Either leave the switch hanging off the side as I have mine. Or, you could attach a small plastic enclosure on the side, with the knob pointing up. That would be super fancy.

I like not having to pull the box in order to change diameter.

[gold]

Al always thought it was a bad idea to switch speeds with power applied to the motor. He thought it could easily damage it. I took his word for that. I've seen switches on the bottom of programmers which seems okay as you have to remove the programmer (removing power) to switch speeds.

I put my diameter switch in a Bud box and attached it to the side of the programmer. This allows a little more working room than stuffing it in the programmer chassis. An Elma 10 series will fit in the programmer chassis but most switches are too big.

[opcode66]

If you follow what I was saying. No power would be applied to the motor while switching.

My device disconnects all of the connections of the programmer. Which mimics pulling it out physically. Then it reconnects the circuit pathways in a different configuration. There is a pause in between. This is all done using photocoupler photorelays.

There is no difference between what I'm doing and having multiple programmers and changing them out.

[gold]

There is no difference between what I'm doing and having multiple programmers and changing them out.

If it's only for you then I have no quibble. I think it is needless complexity for no real operational advantage. Just more things to break. A switch is easy to fix or remove if there is a problem.

[opcode66]

It should be noted that I in fact have switches on my two programmers. I understand that. But, the switch is only for diameter.

I want to do other things here Paul.

1. I don't have half speed boxes. So, this will let me have half speeds.

2. For those with a motor capable of 78 you will be able to actually cut a 78 record at 78.

3. I can put together different cutting profiles. Have the box "tuned" differently via digitization of the trimmers pots. These values could be set from a touchscreen computer interface.

4. This box is the first computer integration piece. The next is a p/d computer replacement. And, motor control. All controlled from a desktop computer with touchscreen.

I am doing these things for myself. Yes. But, there will be value in all of this. I'm sure I will sell a few of these pieces... Each to their own.

I like the idea of moving most of the control of the lathe to a desktop computer. This box lets me have full control over the heartbeat of the lathe so to speak. A lot of things go through the PS box on their way through the lathe.

[Nickou]

3. I can put together different cutting profiles. Have the box "tuned" differently via digitization of the trimmers pots. These values could be set from a touchscreen computer interface.

4.

I did a lot of cuts on a VMS66/70 with original pitch controler
If your pitch controller is setup correctly, respecting the excatly the neumann s procedure, You don t need to touch those trimmers pots
the system works for a 28 min side, but also or for a 9 minuntes sides.
absolutely no problems with that
The only things you have to change for each cut is deph and land.
L, LV and V are set up one time , when you calibrate your system
If you need to touch those value, it means than you use those parameter for something else than calibration.
I understand it is interesting to stoere cutting parameters like depth and land , but for L ,LV and V , I don t see the interest to store several configrations because only 1 will really work ... there one set up per speed , not 2 or 3 ...... and for that, . pots are perfect and permits to do a stable and accurate setting, probably better than with a DA

so this idea is a good one, but does not give new perspectives of better results for VMS66/70 users.
Vms 66/ usrers are more looking for a more efficient pitch controller: a better use of the space we have on a record and less errors than recall functions ...

The loop function is nice ..

[opcode66]

I will continue to do what i do. As usual I have trolls saying oh no no dont do it. Then when im finished and post video, i'll have trolls saying they want one.

This has been the pattern so far for the two years i've been on the scene. I'm now used to you guys not seeing the big picture in my ideas. This is one part of a total modernization and computer integration system. I cant stress that enough. And each time i work on one of these projects i understand the lathe and its systems better. I know more about the vms than some people who have been using one for 3 times longer than me or more. Literally i went from zero to where i am now in two years. Give me some credit. Trust in my vision. That is all.

[ejemmons]

Just want to say, I think it's great that there are folks pushing the state of the art - I'm doing much the same thing with my Scully and Crestron boxes. Works like a charm so far, there'll be pictures when I get around to it. The pic is pretty early on, but the idea is clear. The TP on the left is for a system that runs the recording studio, and the rest of the building..

2013-06-24 20.45.45.jpg

[EmAtChapterV]

I'm doing much the same thing with my Scully and Crestron boxes. Works like a charm so far, there'll be pictures when I get around to it.

That's a really nice looking setup. I can't wait to see more pictures.

[opcode66]

Awesome!