DIY Plating Station

Once you have cut a master laquer, you have metal stampers created and have records pressed from them. Discuss manufacturing here. (Record Matrix Electroforming- Plating, Vinyl Record Pressing.)

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leethal
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DIY Plating Station

Post: # 37839Unread post leethal
Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:52 pm

Good day gents, I am mid way through assembling my 60 litre plating tank.

Ive already built the tilting pre-wash dishes, the silvering booth, and also the rectifier-aggitation-pumps-thermostat-console

I would just like to clarify a couple of things with you people before I continue with my build.


1. Will the silvering working solutions need to be kept at any particular temp? I'm assuming tepid solutions would aid atomisation, yeah?

2. Here on lathetrolls I've read at least 3 spellings of the wetting agent 'diopropion' 'diapropion' 'dipropon'.......I cant find it online or in catalogues...
Can someone refer me to a supplier and tell me the trademark name of the wetting agent please?

3. I've pieced together the chemical shopping list from various threads here on lathetrolls, Have I forgotten anything?
-Trisodium Phosphate.
-Sodium Hydroxide.
-Sodium Sulfate
-Chromic Acid.
-Tin Cloride.
-Hydrochloric Acid.
-Silver Nitrate.
-Ammonia.
-D-Glucose.
-Formaldehyde.
-Hydrogen Peroxide.
-Nickel Sulfamate.
-Nickel Anodes.
-Nickel Chloride.
-Nickel Carbonate.
-Boric Acid.
-Sulfamic Acid.
-Acetone.
-Potassium Hydroxide.


Cheers in advance, I really enjoy this learning experience.
Lee

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leethal
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Re: DIY Plating Station

Post: # 37958Unread post leethal
Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:38 pm

<bump> :)

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mossboss
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Re: DIY Plating Station

Post: # 37961Unread post mossboss
Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:35 pm

Lets take a look at a few things my good man and put into perspective
You have 4 distinct operations
1 Lacquer preparation
2 Silvering of the lacquers
3 Plating the lacquers
4 Finishing the metal work ready for the press
Each phase has its own unique requirements in chemicals
For the 1st op you would need the,
Tri Phosphate is for cleaning the lacquers, diopropion which is a wetting agent so another wetting agent will suffice
That stuff has not been around for 20 years use some warm water with a bit of household detergent wash and rinse many times than your tri phosphate again wash and rinse and rinse than into in some wetting agent again diluted heavily rinse and rinse again and again than on to the tin sensitizing solution and off to the silvering booth
2nd step
I have posted a silvering recipe here so seek and thy shall find
You would need some formaldehyde silver nitrate Potassium Hydroxide and D glucose all in small quantities You can mix the solutions and than take working solutions as you need them, they last about a week if kept in the FRIDGE and I don't see you doing 10-20 lacquers a week to warrant that so mix what when you need
3rd step
Plating The tank should be filled with nickel sulfamate at around the 75-80 grams per L of nickel metal and Boric acid to saturation by hanging an anode bag filled with it in the solution It will take what it needs according to temperature ideally around the 35-40 Grams per L temperature dependent
Forget the chloride as well as the carbonate since your solutions will be new and fresh you will not need that or the sulfamic acid may be some time later after you made 50 odd 12" plates
You would need plenty of distilled water to add to the bath unless you are making mothers I do not see why you would bother with chromic acid as it is generally used for a passivating layer to separate metal to metal You may get it later but as a start is not necessary
De polarised Nickel chips or S Nickel to fill your anode basket placed in an anode bag so as to stop impurities in the solution getting to the cathode
You would need pH strips which are important in knowing your solution in the bath 3.8 to 4.00 is the range to work with
Filtering is crucial with filters down to .5 microns
4th Step
Abrasives from 80 to 800 grit so as to finish the back of the metal work besides a circle cutter and a back sander acetone is used to clean the lacquer remaining in the grooves of the metal work upon separation
Si I would buy the smallest qty of all the above and start doing it Than worry about the rest on your list
To long to explain now some other time however the above gets you going
Have no doubt that we will have many a time to answer you as when you get going with this little endeavour of yours it will be like instead of draining the swamp you would up to your ass in crocodiles Ha Ha
Best
Chris

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leethal
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Re: DIY Plating Station

Post: # 37998Unread post leethal
Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:13 am

Many thanks Chris, I appreciate youre sage advice.

I have all your recipes already printed off, basically everything you've ever posted on this subject is in folders with highlighter over the best bits.

I know I'm cutting my own path through the jungle, I wouldnt have it any other way.

Much respect,

Lee

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mossboss
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Location: Australia.

Re: DIY Plating Station

Post: # 38000Unread post mossboss
Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:30 am

I thought a swamp you want the jungle ha
The most important step is to dummy plate the bath at the start
When you near been ready ill send you a pdf with the steps
For filter use a large domestic water cartridge filter and make sure that activated carbon cartridges are also available for it
If you put two in line one at 1 micron the other at half you will have a good setup
The circulation pump should have enough capacity to turn over the total quantity of liquid 20 times every hour.
Best
Chris

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leethal
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Re: DIY Plating Station

Post: # 38080Unread post leethal
Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:34 am

another moment of your time please,

The digital temp contoller I'm running on the tank has a metallic probe sensor. My understanding is that NO metal should enter the bath (excepting anodes and titanium basket). What type of temp probe is industry standard? Can I coat mine with a thin layer of resin to insulate it?

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untitledthe
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Re: DIY Plating Station

Post: # 38081Unread post untitledthe
Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:55 am

Just thinking with you here, maybe you should look in the direction of glass temperature probes or infrared thermometers / pyrometers,...

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leethal
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Re: DIY Plating Station

Post: # 38098Unread post leethal
Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:31 am

Had a look into those options today mate, glass probes seem like an ideal final solution but they are quite pricey. Not sure how well laser sensors would go, since they only measure the surface temp. I'll keep researching tho, gotta save up for titanium baskets at the moment :)

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mossboss
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Re: DIY Plating Station

Post: # 38099Unread post mossboss
Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:51 am

Stainless steel probes are fine
Nickel and iron are in the same family and ss is 18% nickel
If you place a heat shrunk electrical tube over it it be fine the tip will be left uncovered that's where the junction is no problem
If you make your baskets out of pvc sheeting with a single sheet of titanium on the bottom you may save a small fortune
Best
Chris

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leethal
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Re: DIY Plating Station

Post: # 39179Unread post leethal
Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:19 am

Hello gents, I'm nearing completion of my DIY tank and have some finer details to query. In the next week or two I'll be filling the bath and switching on the DC current!!

1. Would running a constant activated carbon filter in-line with the .5 micron filter be pointless and costly? I'm trying to decide whether to include it in daily operation or have it separated via splitter hose and shut off valve.

2. I'm using 2 anode baskets on my 75 litre tank (120x300x50mm). Is it prudent to run dual positive (+) leads from the rectifier?.... i.e. one lead to each of the baskets? Or is resistance incurred from single mount on one end of bus bar too minimal for concern?

3. Early on in this build I fitted an aquarium air pump with hose (with holes drilled) fixed to the floor of my tank, believing it would aid solution consistency. But now, looking back on you tube clips I dont see many bubbly baths. Would air bubbles actually contribute to pitting? Once again, I am so very close to filling my tank with sulfamate, that it would be a major pain in the balls to have to pop the hood for modifications.

4. I accidently purchased 20L of de-ionised water instead of distilled water. Is it less desirable for late stage pre-plating due to possible living organic material? Or is it within industry standards to use de-ionised water for final rinsing stages?


thanks for reading, I know one of you scholars will steady my path into the fire :)

Lee

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leethal
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Re: DIY Plating Station

Post: # 39312Unread post leethal
Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:32 am

*bump*

merry xmas and happy new year also :)

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mossboss
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Re: DIY Plating Station

Post: # 39319Unread post mossboss
Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:53 pm

1. Continuous filtering at .5 micron or even absolute is a must.
Carbon filter only takes organic contaminants out, since you will have no additives in there there should be no need for it at this early stage It may be necessary after a number of plates have been made to do a carbon treatment as dust and other airborne contaminants will get in the bath
2. No issue in connecting more than one basket electrically to the supply make sure the copper cables never come into contact with the solution Copper is not tolerated in any sulfamate based bath there should be zero, 1 ppm of copper in the bath will give you grief
3. Air type agitation is common in electroplating it is to be avoided in electro forming
4. D water is fine for initial washing and rinsing in the process of lacquer preparation, as an addition to the bath water since it evaporates
However
It is desirable that all chemicals for silvering as well as the final rinse of the prepared lacquer be done with distiller water, d water may have dissolved solids distillerd water does not
Welcome to the club
Best
Chris

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leethal
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Re: DIY Plating Station

Post: # 39329Unread post leethal
Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:34 am

Thanks Mossy, these have been my only reservations before diving in, I've read the pdf at least 19 times now and gaining confidence in my understanding of the science. Already bought plenty more distilled water.

You mentioned that a maximum of 1ppm of copper is tolerated in the sulfamate. But I've read post here saying to put a small copper washer between the silvered disc and the fastening stopper...... ?

That was my last annoying question for 2 weeks I promise

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mossboss
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Re: DIY Plating Station

Post: # 39332Unread post mossboss
Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:01 pm

Correct
As a rule there are 2 sizes of copper washers used, they are covered by the insulated screw which holds the lacquer on the spindle, therefore only the peripheral area of them is exposed to the liquid,
It is only exposed for a few seconds, have a think about it, once current is applied the deposition of nickel metal begins, since copper is very or just as "friendly" as silver to nickel, It is covered by a deposit of nickel, thereafter they are safe from corrosion preventing them dissolving in the solution.
Also despite of my comment, no copper should be present, or detectable, 1 ppm is tolerated as an upper limit, it is not desirable at all
Remember that in a commercial bath you may have 1200 litres or more of sulfamate, if there is any copper detected in the solution, it is removed
It is not unusual to find copper washers in the baths they get dropped by the operators finding their way at the bottom of the tank very hard to find them so as to get them out.
Any steel bits are usually fished out with a magnet on a length of string, but copper washers are left behind until the monthly clean out, they do stay in one piece
The copper or iron detected in the solution is there from the nickel carbonate which is used to produce sulfamate solution.
Any metallic contaminants are usually plated out by low voltage/current dummying, organic contaminants are removed by carbon
Get going with it man
Best
Chris

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leethal
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Re: DIY Plating Station

Post: # 39709Unread post leethal
Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:51 am

OK, I've given my rig a systems check with filtered water (minus the current). Mostly I wanted to measure the ideal volume for this set-up. No leaks, good filtration with a nice gentle flow onto substrate, temp controls are sweet, jig spins at 45rpm (can go faster or slower with speed controller) and shaft is well insulated. So now I must dump water, wipe thoroughly with weak solution of H-acid, and change the filter core....I wish to show you my bath formula and procedure before moving forward, hopefully someone will correct me if needed.

Final tank volume is 55 litres.

1. Clean thoroughly with distilled water and 15% H-acid.
2. Rinse well with distilled water.
3. Fill anode baskets with 4.125kg of S-pellets (75g/L).
4. Add 23.1 litres of Barrett SNR-24 nickel sulfamate to tank (42% of final volume).
5. Add 16.5 litres of distilled water to tank (30% of final volume).
6. Heat to 36 degrees celcius.
7. Fill poly bag with 1.925kg of boric acid (35g/L final volume) and aggitate til dissolved. Hang at rear of tank.
8. Adjust to final volume with distilled water (approx 10 litres).
9. Turn on filter.
10. Check PH, should be 3.8 - 4
11. Mount a piece of stainless steel sheet to platter.
12. Set rectifier at lowest possible voltage.
13. Pass 10 amps of current for every litre of bath..... i.e. say it draws 2 amps on a 1 litre tank, it would take 5 hours.
14. Remove dummy and check parameters.
15. Increase current to 1.5v.

*PH must be 3.8 - 4 !!
*Max temp 38 oC !!

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leethal
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Re: DIY Plating Station

Post: # 40137Unread post leethal
Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:33 am

I'm gonna assume my modus operandi is spot on, just gotta change out the cheaper filter pump for a better one (arrived this week) that wont overheat :)

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Aussie0zborn
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Re: DIY Plating Station

Post: # 43776Unread post Aussie0zborn
Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:45 am

What ever happened to Leethal? No posts for a long time.

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leethal
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Re: DIY Plating Station

Post: # 44001Unread post leethal
Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:32 am

Hey guys, I've had a bit of a time out to rest my brain and get my life back on track, but I'm ready to rock again :)

I have a question regarding the purity of distilled water. Specifically how close to 0ppm purity is acceptible? Ive recently built a solar still from a glass top table, which basically sits in the yard and catches sunlight and collecting the evaporated h2o. Ive tested the purity with a tds metre and I'm reading 4.1ppm. I'm sure this would be fine for pre-plating prep, but is it good enough for my bath?

cheers
Lee

andybee
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Re: DIY Plating Station

Post: # 44007Unread post andybee
Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:22 am

Hi! the cleaner the water the better!
We use at the moment special cartridges for water cleaning, they remove mostly all salts and impuritis out of the water,
more cheaper (if you need more water) is a osmosis system with tank & pump.
good luck!

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leethal
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Re: DIY Plating Station

Post: # 44011Unread post leethal
Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:55 pm

What effect would using water with 4.1ppm have in the solution?

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