toolex machines differences

[andybee]

yo, pressing guys, I was wondering, what the differences between the toolex models are:
-701: 7inch, analog controller
-702: 7inch, digital controller P081
-703: puncher for removing the edge

-1201: 12inch, analog controller
-1202: 12inch, p81 controller?
-1207: ?

if you have some informations, please let me know :9

thanks a lot!

[mossboss]

Is this for Historical purposes or have you some commercial purpose in mind??? Ha Ha
Here we go for a taste
The 1207 used a controller that had sufficient "smarts" in the program to differentiate between a 12" machine and a 7" machine
Specifically, the combined single motion of label and cake loading on a 7" press made two sensors redundant on the 12" which are cake in and cake out as used in any of the 12" presses
The program is not looking for them when it runs If it does you will get an error Label arm not out
Besides when running a 12" press via the selector switch located on the very same controller the wiring of label in and cake loader in is quite different
The label in sensor powers up the cake out sensor preventing an ongoing error 52 on earlier machines which appeared for no apparent reason
1201 Controllers had 4 e prom chips on them as they where 4K x 1 Bit of memory capacity
Due to the extra power required there was an auxiliary current/voltage supply added to the 32 wire flat ribbon cable which supplied the extra juice required
This was always fitted on all controllers as users may have earlier CPU cards but the extra power supply after a certain serial number is not required as later controllers had/have 1 16K x 1 bit e prom which suffices in memory capacity using about the same juice as one of the older chips
1207 machines have 32 steps in the program which allows for the programming steps of spindle shifter as well as the sleeving unit
As an example a 1201 controller had only 6 steps, to be adjusted by the user and 1203 machines have 16 steps adjustable by the user
There was a variation for the machines supplied to Teldec which allowed for controlled speed in the opening of the machine with an extra hydraulic valve on the block as well as flow control for it
On normal machines the pull down cylinders open the machine via a smart combination of the dump valve operation, however no control of the opening speed is available and the extra valve is catered for in the controller as well as the hydraulic system
Here is the catch, there was never any publication as such from Alpha explaining the differences, the little sample above is from experience gained over the years
I can keep going here for ages but Need an answer to the first question Mr Bauer
Cheers

[andybee]

Thanks for the answer!

I had this question in my mind for some years, until I seen
the different model numbers...

I have also some schematics of different presses 7" and 12" here,
and could never find the differences....

Stupidly a big bunch of schematics went into trash at ZYX, because
I didn´t thougt about that... shame on me

Thanks a lot !!!

[mossboss]

Just by the way Even though there was quite a lot of different Controller variations there was never any alterations to the basic wiring of the machines at all except of course for the Teldec specials
The wiring in the cabinet was normalized on the 1207 therefore the number 1207 as they jumped from 3 to 7 there is no version 4,5, or 6
It means both 12" and 7"
This was very very late around the 1983 when the company was at its death throws so very few machines are out there with common cabinet wiring that the 1207 was to cure
The terminal numbers from a 7" machines earlier than this are certainly quite specific to them and no relation to the 12"
So even though a later or an earlier controller will run them there are always unexplained errors as well as instability
The 1207 controller also solved the issue of "disc UN-loader not in"
This error appears when one went bellow 6.1 odd seconds on step one for a 12" press and about a little less than that for a 7" machine
That is a very good way to tell if you have an early or a late version
Drop step one down until it gives you a 12 or 13 error, if it does not go bellow 5-5.8 seconds and you do get the error it is not a 1207
If you are able to get down to 3-4 odd seconds than it is the latest version
For some reason there is a small variation between controllers as well
I suspect that variations are due to the quartz crystal on the CPU card and the C 27 card
The total time seems the same, this is controlled by the CPU
The program functions, since they are loaded on the C27 card, vary in time but only for the waiting codes
Where a 1207 controller can be of great help apart from common terminal numbers and some other niceties the most significant advantage was this:
Say you have steam pressure available at 250 PSI
(Alpha always did all they production figures at 170PSI)
It means that you can heat up the mold to 145-150 C in step 1 or heat 1 in about 3-3.5 seconds
Heat 2 is than only about .5 of a second, heat 3 about .3 of a second than relief for .1 of a second, than cooling
You could achieve a cycle of around 17.5-18 Seconds with water at around 20 C for a 12" Record at around the 145 Grams
On a 7" a cycle time of 11.8-12 seconds is also possible 5 records a minute at 45 grams each
The latest controllers can do it but not the early ones
Burning another e prom for some reason does not do it
They may have some kind of early protection on the micro-code there
Numerous attempts to do it have failed
There are quite a few other variations so as I remember them I will post them up for you Mr B and others of course
By the way I have achieved these very low cycle times for a few hours at the time
For stable running conditions I added another .5-.7 of second
Not bad for a machine made over 30 years ago
Imagine if the R&D did not come to a sudden stop on both sides DMM as well as pressing
We could have 3 hours playing time a side as well as 10 Second cycle time
Ok I am Dreaming now
Cheers

[andybee]

Yo, very interesting infos, thanks a lot!!!!!!
So, the difference is mostly in the software of the eprom right?
Yes, the copy protection of this 70ies/80is stuff was very effective!
I remeber also, that is possible, to lay the EPROMS in the sun without the sticker for a while, to delete them
I think, sooner or later it is necessary, to replace the old controllers
with new technoligy, like S7 or similar....

[mossboss]

Why they still very effective and they very rarely break down cheers