Vinyl Record Pressing Plants The raise of the Pheonix and back to ashes?

Once you have cut a master laquer, you have metal stampers created and have records pressed from them. Discuss manufacturing here. (Record Matrix Electroforming- Plating, Vinyl Record Pressing.)

Moderators: piaptk, tragwag, Steve E., Aussie0zborn

User avatar
mossboss
Posts: 2092
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:18 am
Location: Australia.

Vinyl Record Pressing Plants The raise of the Pheonix and back to ashes?

Post: # 64859Unread post mossboss
Tue May 14, 2024 8:10 pm

Well here we are after a few booming years, the proliferation of new pressing plants, plus the increased capacity of prior to the boom existing plants, we are now seeing a number of plants shutting down or in liquidation/bankruptcy
Also there are record pressing machines as well as auxiliary equipment offered for sale, most likely the end result of failures or never even starting up
Plant in Dublin gone another in France one in FL USA a long established plant in Germany stopped pressing
Plants in Europe are down to around 30-40% of output capacity there are new machines delivered but never installed offered at heavy discounts besides new machines already delivered and installed sitting idle
It seems that there is a general feeling of doom and gloom all around
In the last 6-7 years production capacity tripled with the availability of new pressing equipment new plants established older plants expanded, all where busy now it seems that just like turning the light dimmer right down not quite off orders are drying up
Is this a sign of the demise of the game once again?
Has the medium had is day once again for the buying public?
We all know CD killed it originally than the DJ's got it up again, some time later than Cerato killed again, the Hipsters started getting into it and gave it another kick start but there was never any big expansion in the industry as we have seen lately
It is certainly a sign that things are not going well considering not so long ago a delivery time of some months was quoted almost across the globe, whereby in recent times or since mid to late last year we have seen a major drop in orders
Major plants which did not bother with orders of 300-500 in the recent past are now accepting them and we now see plants closing their doors
Did the industry enjoyed the Largess of governments globally during covid19 when people had no where to spend money so it went to vinyl records?
Has the medium lost its appeal?
Is there lack of disposable income?
What do others in the game think?
It would be interesting to have others chipping in here with their views on the current market as well as any suggestions to the currently woes experienced across the industry
Best
C
Chris

User avatar
duomo
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:45 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Vinyl Record Pressing Plants The raise of the Pheonix and back to ashes?

Post: # 64866Unread post duomo
Wed May 15, 2024 1:58 pm

I don’t think it’s a customer problem because vinyl sales are still growing.. slower but still ok. It’s more a problem of the huge over capacity built up the last years.
Moritz
www.duophonic.de
vinylcutting / mastercutting/ pressing

User avatar
mossboss
Posts: 2092
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:18 am
Location: Australia.

Re: Vinyl Record Pressing Plants The raise of the Pheonix and back to ashes?

Post: # 64869Unread post mossboss
Wed May 15, 2024 11:16 pm

I hear you and most likely I agree with you up to a point, given that not so long ago there was about 45 plants worldwide whereby the number has risen to well over 100 in recent times,
Having said that it does not explain the fact that all plants were busy for at least a year most likely 18 months with the added capacity
so it may be something else which is the reason for my post
Best
C
Chris

User avatar
piaptk
Posts: 1750
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:40 am
Location: Tucson, AZ
Contact:

Re: Vinyl Record Pressing Plants The raise of the Pheonix and back to ashes?

Post: # 64870Unread post piaptk
Thu May 16, 2024 1:30 am

I think a large part of the "new plants closing down" is because "vinyl fans" and not "Manufacturing experts" unknowingly made unrealistic business plans and got investors who expected far more than they ended up getting. Then these plants had problem after problem due to lack of support, lack of knowledge, lack of resources, etc along with rising raw material and utility costs and the investors pulled the plug.

From what I've seen, it seems like vinyl has a larger customer base, but one that purchases less qty than the record collectors that propped up vinyl during the lean years (Punk, indie, house, reggae, hip hop, etc). They are selling a lot of Taylor Swift records, but those buyers are only buying a few a year. In the late 90s, early 2000s, I used to buy at least a hundred new records in a year along with huge stacks of thrifted and used records.
I Buy/Sell/Restore Vintage Machines/Parts and Provide Phone/In Person Tech Support
www.MichaelDixonVinylArt.com
www.LatheCutCamp.com
www.RecordLatheParts.com
www.MobileVinylRecorders.com
www.LatheCuts.com

User avatar
untitledthe
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:24 pm
Location: Netherland

Re: Vinyl Record Pressing Plants The raise of the Pheonix and back to ashes?

Post: # 64871Unread post untitledthe
Thu May 16, 2024 8:20 am

I dont think all plants close due liquidation/bankruptcy, some people are just 'done' with it. Not everybody keeps doing the same for tens of years esspecially smaller plants where it is experienced as very demanding. You have done it for years, things start to slow down, its getting hard to put in the same effort, you can still sell the equipement for a good price to a party that still wants to start up; great oppertunity to change your life. Start with a vacation and have some budget to start/do something else in life.

Im just a outsider, but its sorry to hear plants are only doing 40% of its output capacity, i do not hope the calculations where aimed to high when the sky was the limit and the big investments of new presses, aux. equipement, building expansion, installation and all the other costs i dont even know of where done. I see some equipement being offered for sale here literal and there occasionaly, any more equipement broker/traders that got small parts to entire parts of plants for sale? Allways interested, pm welcome.

Its a shame to hear of brand new equipement not even getting installed as there is no work for it. Some expensions where also thát big, the numbers where probably right for that moment but did it really need the size of big plants doubled up? Grab the profits while its there? Or get rid of the older machinery. The promotion/advertisement by plants is getting stronger, turnaround times of 30 days has been offerend for months, lower minimal order - its all a sign indeed. But is it a sign of over capacity, a slighty decrease of orders - thats now under a magnifying glass as it rumbles here and there - or probably both?

Records are now established as fine dining in a restaurant, instead of fast food with no finesse. Thats something people allways will get back to sooner or later. Perhaps yes a luxery that not all people allways can do, but really appreciated when they do. I dont know how things are in other parts of the world but life has made a big jump in costs of living, the wages increased aswell but did it to the same point? Hard to buy records if you need fuel for the car, when those gasmonkeys just do what they like. The price for a record is out there too. 100 euro gets you 2, perhaps 3 records in a brick and mortar shop, with double albums 50 euro. Even some new, widely available records (double album) being offerend for 80 euro, they can keep them in my opinion. Perhaps that was just a incident that was noticed, about time to do another round in the shop i guess! :)

The medium does not lost it appeal, i dont believe it, you still see it in very random advertisement of totally different products, where a record is put on to obtain a atmosphere of relaxation and sit back, generally. But i must admit i saw cd popping up occasionally as something cool and retro, just how the record revival started, so everybody get those cd lines out of storage..:D The whole story of 15 years ago starts again!

User avatar
armshouse
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri May 17, 2024 8:09 pm

Re: Vinyl Record Pressing Plants The raise of the Pheonix and back to ashes?

Post: # 64873Unread post armshouse
Sat May 18, 2024 11:53 am

When demand spiked and turn times grew to over a year there was a frenzy of ordering as labels tried to keep their biggest sellers in stock. People started ordering much larger quantities of re orders and I think this was a big part of what created the bottleneck we all saw in 2021 - 2022. No one needs to do this anymore as records can be made almost immediately. This is not the only factor, but certainly an important one. My read on where we are at now is that sales of records are still very strong possibly still growing slowly or staying flat. Even if sales are decreasing slightly we are at a much higher level than we were five year ago. What is causing this perceived global slowdown is massive over capacity. All the machines ordered at the height of demand are all coming online at once. I am less tuned in to the European market, but here in the US there are new plants opening up seemingly weekly with many more to come. Adding insult to injury all of these new plants are opening with brand new machines, deposits paid long ago while other new machines sit idle or even in crates uninstalled at existing plants as Moss was mentioning above.

User avatar
chjones
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:28 pm

Re: Vinyl Record Pressing Plants The raise of the Pheonix and back to ashes?

Post: # 65067Unread post chjones
Mon Jun 10, 2024 9:34 am

Just my five pence worth, personal experience working with a group of different pressing factories, these are the biggest issues causing closures of the plants;

- over capacity driven by the mass sale of machines over the last 3 years - genuine feeling amongst newer factories over the last 2 years, that the machines were sold as being easier and cheaper to run than what is realistic. Multiple instances of manufacturers supplying critical set up information after the machines are on site rather than during the purchase / installation time frame, this has caused a few months delay on starting production for a few plants.

-poor / inconsistent quality from smaller plants due to a mixture of lack of knowledge / unavailable training / lack of support from machine manufacturers.

- multiple variations of the same machines in the market, different factories have the same press but the wiring and assembly varies machine to machine - both on quality and actual parts used - this is causing issues for supply of spare parts - multiple occasions of parts supplied are incorrect leading to downtime on the machines.

- factories promised delivery within 2 to 3 months, having paid for the machines and hired staff to run them only to be made to wait 11 months for them to be delivered - this is draining the smaller plants funds with no one taking ownership of the issues at the manufacturers.

- lack of schematics supplied, constant chase for basic information for running the presses. No ownership of poorly designed parts of the machines with inconsistent quality of spare parts.
Genuine comment from one manufacturer - "to learn the machine, you must run it - we don't have a manual or guides but if you break it, it's for you to cover the costs of replacement parts."

- huge variation in cost of manufacturing records versus sales cost with a smaller and smaller margin going to the pressing plants, with no support from the larger labels who continuously scout for the cheapest deal whether it's realistic or not.
Personal experience with orders over 75k records for one artist, happily sold via brokers at less than manufacturing costs without any foresight into whether the factory actually makes any profit at all - it destroys the business and screws over the staff who weren't paid for the hours worked, knocking on to bankruptcy because they can't pay the bills!

- cost of spare parts - huge profit margins on spare parts yet no ownership of poor quality and delays due to no stock.

At least in Europe, the price of materials has stabilised at a good price point that allows people to be competitive on pricing.

This is just the start of the shrink I feel, very definite that the machine manufacturers are only really supporting the factories with 15+ machines, happy to take the money from the smaller plants but never offer the help needed. Get in, make as much money selling machines in the boom then disappear once the industry quiets down.

User avatar
mossboss
Posts: 2092
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:18 am
Location: Australia.

Re: Vinyl Record Pressing Plants The raise of the Pheonix and back to ashes?

Post: # 65464Unread post mossboss
Tue Jul 30, 2024 11:27 pm

Interesting perspectives from the replies above Thank you all
May be I be bold and point out something that it has not touched upon so far
It is no secret that most plants out there publish the prices of their offerings, It is there available for any one to see
There is a clear breakdown of what cost is involved covering all aspects of the production of a vinyl record, cutting, plating pressing inner bags outer covers shrink wrapping adding stickers etc
If one does a simple analysis what pops out is the cost of cutting and plating which becomes the major cost item on small orders of up to say 300-400 units
Now, what has that got to do with the subject? Simple not cutting and plating in-house a pressing plant that uses outside suppliers for cutting and metal work is in essence a break even situation at best or a loss making one most likely, profit for a job at less than 1000 units it be very small
It does not take much to work out that adding a percentage on items bought from outside like a 20-30% mark up will not cut it if you have to run a pressing plant relying, to make a profit, by converting PVC compound into a record at what the market is prepared to pay
Energy is about $1.2, compound is about $0.75 add rent machine maintenance and consumables labor as well as amortising capital you are getting pretty close what one gets per record around the $4.00 give or take for standard weight black records
Where is the profit in that?
Sure I hear all the other issues raised here most likely valid, However consider this! Why on earth would any one want to go into a business that entails about 6 different highly skilled disciplines??
Here is what they are
Audio the whole purpose, Steam, Water, Hydraulics, Pneumatic system, Electrical and Electronics, Printing, packaging and shipping and all the associated issues that arise with all or any of them where outside expertise is needed? at what cost?
Have I missed something? no doubt
If any group of aspiring vinyl record producing people can deal with the above there is a fair chance they can make it if not well we can just see the end result sooner or later
The point is it takes many years and a lot of patience to learn the art and craft of manufacturing vinyl records, at best one can make a reasonable living out of it, after paying his way, in so far as making a profit that is a far harder task which is not easily achieved, and I am afraid that we will see a lot more casualties
One Final point is this: As it is the norm in the game every plant expects a deposit with any order placed it would not be surprising to find out that a number of plants are still running on those deposits, as orders dry up no one should be surprised that a lot of people would be looking for their records or their deposits back from a plant that pulled the pin
Sad but I can see that happening, it should not be surprising to any one, may be I am painting a rather dim picture on this thread, Ill be happy to hear other points of view, but my long presence and association in the industry may make me a bit negative having seeing it a few times already
Please chip in
Cheers
C
Chris

User avatar
armshouse
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri May 17, 2024 8:09 pm

Re: Vinyl Record Pressing Plants The raise of the Pheonix and back to ashes?

Post: # 65467Unread post armshouse
Wed Jul 31, 2024 6:19 pm

Moss hits the nail on the head with this one. In the same way that razor blade companies give away the razor in order to sell you the blade, the record itself is not the profit center. Pressing records is a break even proposition (at best) and the only reason to do it is to try to make a small profit on all the related items and services. I have long wondered what the business plan looks like at all these new plants around the world with 1 - 3 presses who only press. Not that mastering or plating is an easy way to make money either, you need to be an expert in both of those areas to stand a chance if you go down that road. There are probably other services one could provide, possibly fulfillment, warehousing, etc. but the bottom line is that if all you do is press records the math that Moss presented above is a cold truth. An endless supply of people seem to get caught up in some romantic notion of record pressing while ignoring the fact that what you are doing is plastic manufacturing and the same realities that apply to any other plastic manufacturing also apply here.

User avatar
DR_faust
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:43 pm
Location: Austria
Contact:

Re: Vinyl Record Pressing Plants The raise of the Pheonix and back to ashes?

Post: # 65518Unread post DR_faust
Sat Aug 10, 2024 9:53 am

Hello everyone, thanks to BossMoss for starting the thread.
I can only agree with what has already been written.
Running a record pressing plant profitably is now a difficult thing for several reasons, as mentioned before.

One aspect I would like to address is retail for the end customer.

Retail for the end customer has doubled the selling prices of records in recent years (Covid was a booster).
Unfortunately, as we all know, a pressing plant does not get twice as much for the goods it delivers....
On the contrary, the increased energy and raw material costs can hardly be passed on because the excess capacity of presses would immediately make you fail in the competition.
Since the end customer pays twice as much for the record, on the one hand they buy fewer records and on the other hand the expectations and requirements for the medium have increased enormously.

What can/must you do to remain competitive on the market as a small vinyl-record pressing plant:

1) Quality, quality, quality
The end customer expects top quality for the expensively purchased record - minimize complaints

2) Service, service, service
The selection of pressing plants is large, personal and fast service is important

3) Offer special products
Many colors, marbled, splatter, edging, inside-out cut, stickers, inlays, cd's, download cards, boxes, obi-strip, etc, etc....

4) Cutting, electroplating, pressing, packaging, should be in-house
On the one hand important for a fast turnaround time, on the other hand important for quality control

5) Optimize all processes
especially important for pressing and packaging to save time and labor

6) Reduce delivery/supply chains
Granulate vinyl waste, produce printed products regionally, produce lacquers yourself, recycle as much as you can

7) Find cooperation partners
Having a basic capacity utilization through a large label or major distributor is very important in the long term. However, they will only cooperate if the quality, price and delivery reliability are guaranteed.

To be able to guarantee this, see points 1-6

I hope to be able to give an impetus to smaller pressing plant owners/operators.
I know from personal experience that this is easy to write but incredibly difficult to implement.
Without personal commitment from the owners/operators (from my own experience 10-14 hours a day), good staff, economic competence, know-how and inventiveness, a company is doomed to failure in the current situation.
Please comment, send additions, let's discuss
All the best, Hannes
>>We press YOUR music<<

http://www.austrovinyl.at
https://www.facebook.com/austrovinyl/
Instagram #austrovinyl

User avatar
mossboss
Posts: 2092
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:18 am
Location: Australia.

Re: Vinyl Record Pressing Plants The raise of the Pheonix and back to ashes?

Post: # 65613Unread post mossboss
Wed Aug 28, 2024 5:21 am

Hannes and others here Hello
Your suggestions are in essence what every plant ought to be doing at any point in time, I have repeatedly pointed out to many people even here some time back that a plant without cutting and galvanic setup is doomed to fail sooner or later
I can assure everyone here that of the ones remaining just doing pressing, quite a number of these pressing plants are living on customers 50% deposits, for jobs pending
I challenge any of them to look at their accounts, take away the 50% deposit and most will find they are in the red big time worst case, or breaking even at best given that they have enough order at capacity
Processing PVC compound when at best 3 shots per minute, most likely 2, with the huge amount of energy that it takes to press a record its a recipe for disaster
Compare that to any injection moulding machine such as making bottle caps at 96 caps per shot and a cycle time of around 4 seconds or any other comparable plastic processing, ie, CD, there are myriads of examples
Why and how anyone that does a simple analysis of the process goes into the game is beyond me, here is a quick rule of thumb calculation of what it takes, In euros,
PVC compound 0.70, rent maintenance consumables waste it be close to another 0.50 euro per record Energy, Eu 1.2 labour on top say 0.12 cents so all up the cost is close to euro 2.50 + per record pressed, what do you get out the door?
Attempting to make a margin on labels jackets packaging and a margin on the cut and metalwork just does not make record pressing a viable business, simple
Another point is this: We had around 45 pressing plants worldwide for many years up and till about 7 years ago with most likely around 400-450 presses manufacturing records
Most of these plants had/have cutting and plating facilities in house
The last count I did was 115 plants in lots of countries worldwide
In the last 6-7 years the industry also had a few new press manufacturers coming in the field, about 5 serious and a couple of small number have new machines delivered
My guess is that the population of record presses tripled most likely quadrupled with the addition of these new machines, plus I guess a number of out of service skeletons got back up and running so add another say 20-50 machines,
Here are my guesses, out of Canada a guess of around 300-400 machines Out of Sweden 400-500 out of the Czech republic i guess 150-200 out of Germany another 100-150
Of course these are my own estimates so take them as a guess, however it cannot be doubted that there are a lot of presses idle or new presses delivered and never installed
Rumour has it that 30-40 odd new presses still in crates some have been offered to the market at substantial discount albeit without takers
The boom that was created during Covid is gone I am not going to say we will never see that again may be maybe not However the people that went into the game investing big money are asking themselves a lot of questions I am sure wondering when or if they will see a return
More poignant is the fact that a number of people promoting the vinyl record dream dragged in a lot of investors who are no doubt asking a lot of questions or looking for their money back, good luck with that i'd say
Brokers who funded a few machines here and there did well out of it They may or may not be involved but once the tap turned off plant is gone M music in France Dublin Vinny in Ireland and three in the USA are already gone bust or shut the doors
Stats indicate a 15% year on year increase in sales of records, I can almost guaranty that it is not reflected in the pressing plants or on the bricks and mortar sale outlets not sure about online sales
So what does the future hold? A big time "consolidation" Nah lots of plants will shut down lots of newish machines will become available at low low prices without any buyers that know the game, may be a few dreamers will jump in than find out that hard way it was not a good idea
By the way Zenith have invested a substantial amount of money acquiring 4 x AD12 presses from Europe at a very substantial discount compared to the ex factory price, Why? We know the game we have almost 95% in house Cutting Galavanics Pressing Folding and gluing both inners and outer bags, the only thing we get is printing done within 5 K from our premisses, we have invested in new efficient boiler, we manufacture a super efficient mould that's cuts down energy use by at least 25% we recycle every bit of PVC that comes in amongst a few other efficiency measures within the plant
Do we believe in the industry? of course we do, but we have all the necessary components to make sure we are in it for the long run, 16 years under current management the plant has been around for over 40 years we have seen it all, good bad and indifferent, no surprises whatsoever, when all the new plants started popping up with new gear I did say give it a few years and there will be some bargains out there for us And it has come to pass
As for the new comers remaining ? well good luck with it all, but I do not personally see lady luck doing any one any favours, may be they get it or they should consider getting out so they can live to fight another day, I doubt that the last bit would ever happen knowing human nature, they will persevere waiting for a miracle or another epidemic, the first unlikely the second who knows
Best
C
Chris

User avatar
untitledthe
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:24 pm
Location: Netherland

Re: Vinyl Record Pressing Plants The raise of the Pheonix and back to ashes?

Post: # 65616Unread post untitledthe
Thu Aug 29, 2024 2:49 pm

Great additions to this topic gentleman, great insight in todays (vinyl) production industry. Perhaps confronting but to the point. As a hobbyist there is not much what i can say about it, easy talking from the side, kinda makes me doubt to add to this topic but anyway... Comparing compression molding with each recordrelease is different, to injection molding of bottle caps is absolute nonesense in my eyes - only because its both plastic manufacturing. Bottlecaps go for 0,000000001 out the door (example), i dont think there are very good examples to compare records with, except cds but thats a market even worse. Anyway i get the point, very high costs to run, very little to no profits to show.

It looked all very promising with the vinylrecord boom, perhaps people started off to big, or went to big. People that caught on early in the boom probably paided off their machinery by now so thats a struggle less and could grow some flesh on the bones, but i can imagine that its for other people different. Personally i think a bad time is better to start off, if you can make it in bad times, you can make it in good times, time will tell.. dont start off to big and rely to heavy on it.

User avatar
mossboss
Posts: 2092
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:18 am
Location: Australia.

Re: Vinyl Record Pressing Plants The raise of the Pheonix and back to ashes?

Post: # 65629Unread post mossboss
Sun Sep 01, 2024 6:12 am

Righto The point is quite simple, weight of material processed as against $$$ income, Weather is a record or bottle caps or whatever made of thermoplastic, it makes no difference, when it is all said and done that is what all record pressing plants do in the absence of the rest of the process,
Process Plastic!! I would like for anyone to tell me what it is if it is not that!!
Is the pressing plant some place that magic takes place?
Program is cut outside Metal work is done outside Jackets are done outside labels are delivered, WTF is the plant doing apart from mounting the stampers on the press and run the qty required on machines that technology has not changed since Adam was a boy
Even for the latest model recently made record presses
In other words process the PVC compound 200 Grams for a 180 G record or so, so while one processes 400 grams for 2 records a minute if one is lucky than stick around .50 per record to get it out the door, the injection moulding machine has made1500 bottle caps and processed about 1.5 KG of compound with a profit
Bad example? Not Really processing plastic is what it is regardless what you produce
Best
C
Chris

User avatar
untitledthe
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:24 pm
Location: Netherland

Re: Vinyl Record Pressing Plants The raise of the Pheonix and back to ashes?

Post: # 65631Unread post untitledthe
Sun Sep 01, 2024 11:09 am

Offcourse it is both times processing plastic, and what kind of profit you can make out of it, weight of material processed as against $$$ income - dead right.

My point is pressing 2 records a minute has still a better margin with a pressing setup of 300k
then a injectionpress that does 1500 caps a minute, that are not even worth cents a piece, while the mould allready is 200k, press 400k

i wouldnt even suprise me if the 1500 caps together still dont have the same margin then 2 records.
they dont got that stuff running 24/7 literly to come to amounts to make a profit.

In my eyes its not about the plastic, its about manufacturing a valuable product.

User avatar
ectomorphs
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:48 pm
Location: Warwick, UK
Contact:

Re: Vinyl Record Pressing Plants The raise of the Pheonix and back to ashes?

Post: # 65635Unread post ectomorphs
Mon Sep 02, 2024 12:08 pm

A very interesting thread! Having studied this industry as an organizational sociologist now for about 8 years, my view is that some people have made the mistake of thinking that what has become a niche (ever since the acceptance of digital alternatives) can once again become and remain a mass-market consumption product. There have been some unrealistic expectations, fueled by media hype. There are many reasons for the churn we are now witnessing and I agree with what others here have said. Covid-19 definitely played a role in terms of altering supply and demand dynamics. Vinyl will never completely die but manufacturers will struggle to survive without extremely efficient operations and/or a highly unique selling proposition.

User avatar
armshouse
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri May 17, 2024 8:09 pm

Re: Vinyl Record Pressing Plants The raise of the Pheonix and back to ashes?

Post: # 65636Unread post armshouse
Mon Sep 02, 2024 4:15 pm

The key difference between producing bottle caps and producing records is that no one would open a bottle cap factory because of their undying love of bottle caps. If you had the customers who wanted you to make bottle caps for them you would crunch the numbers, amount of machines, production quantities, costs, etc. and the business either works or it doesn't. I can't imagine anyone would open a bottle cap factory without already having the clients to run your factory at full capacity. In many new record manufacturing start ups people seem to not only be unaware of the basic business plan needed to turn a profit, they also don't usually know who the customers will be that can keep their factory at full capacity. I would imagine there are no other plastic manufacturing businesses that run like this. Again, the allure of working with records seems to entice people to make some very bad financial decisions.

User avatar
mossboss
Posts: 2092
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:18 am
Location: Australia.

Re: Vinyl Record Pressing Plants The raise of the Pheonix and back to ashes?

Post: # 65637Unread post mossboss
Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:03 pm

Great stuff, It seems that people are paying attention, finally it seems that at least some rational is creeping in in this thread
Sure If you can get 3-3.50 euro per record you break even, than find some more to make a profit If you see the advertised prices it is a long way down from that so where is the plus side? The romance? OK it lasts as long as available cash and or some investor realises that this is a way to nowhere so that romance comes to an end, why? simply it does not put food on the table
I still challenge any one to do the exercise in simple math, see the amount of cash in the kitty deduct deposits held and see where they are!
Any way it seems that the fallout has started with plants struggling or closing the doors
Only the ones that have more than just offering pressing will remain standing in my considered view
Time will tell no doubt
BestC
Chris

User avatar
ectomorphs
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:48 pm
Location: Warwick, UK
Contact:

Re: Vinyl Record Pressing Plants The raise of the Pheonix and back to ashes?

Post: # 65638Unread post ectomorphs
Tue Sep 03, 2024 6:28 am

Love for the product is of course a good thing - as long as it doesn't lead to irrational and dangerous decisions.
My analyses of historical developments in other craft-based industries suggest that effective industry support systems focus on continuously generating awareness, interest and skills concerning the production process (in addition to effective marketing that promotes the products to stimulate consumer demand). In practice, this means developing and maintaining highly engaging initiatives that teach children and young adults about all aspects of vinyl record manufacturing as part of school education in subjects like physics, chemistry and music, in addition to providing specialized, hands-on workshops. Such efforts could be partly funded by the industry and local governments. The potential benefits of this are multiple, such as: An increased supply of at least partially informed industry entrants (who also develop transferable skills for other industries) who have some relevant skills and realistic expectations; additional income-generating prospects for practitioners (who, by earning income through teaching, can reduce complete dependence on short term market-based pressures); countering inter-generational knowledge-loss; and stimulating innovation via research (in partnership with industry). I could go on an on and, as someone working in higher education, of course I’m biased towards such initiatives… But this is not just pure speculation. In the 19th century several threatened crafts were supported this way in industrialized nations, for instance via the creation of specialized technical and vocational schools (that also taught business administration basics for the reasons mossboss mentions). While things have certainly changed since then (and a lack of a geographically concentrated ‘vinyl’ community hinders efforts to establish dedicated vinyl record manufacturing schools), I would argue that the general principles concerning educational support still apply.

User avatar
ectomorphs
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:48 pm
Location: Warwick, UK
Contact:

Re: Vinyl Record Pressing Plants The raise of the Pheonix and back to ashes?

Post: # 65639Unread post ectomorphs
Tue Sep 03, 2024 7:23 am

Does this sound utopian? Well, let’s imagine the crazy idea of schools in industrialized, Western nations today teaching teenagers how to make shotguns and rifles, including all elements (woodworking, metalworking, engraving, assembly) using both traditional and modern techniques. Guess what? These schools actually exist. One I visited recently for my research on preserving crafts: https://www.htl-ferlach.at/buechsenmacher ; and here’s another: https://www.germanhuntingguns.com/travel-destinations-in-central-europe/suhl-gun-makers-school/
If you can have schools that teach kids how to make guns, why not vinyl records?
Of course there are already some initiatives along these lines – With Mike Dixon deserving a mention for his lathe cut bootcamps (http://piaptk.com/products/763957-lathe-cut-camp-23-may-18-20-2024) !

User avatar
mossboss
Posts: 2092
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:18 am
Location: Australia.

Re: Vinyl Record Pressing Plants The raise of the Pheonix and back to ashes?

Post: # 65648Unread post mossboss
Thu Sep 05, 2024 6:49 am

Ectomorphs! What an Interesting moniker, love it very Greek indeed, Ok Ferlach, Tradition going back many many years Famous for Drillings, 410 shotgun with a 22 under the side by or a side by side 12 Gauge with a 303 or 7.62mm Russian German cartridges very close match made and sold all over the world, besides double rifles made to order Great pieces of excellent workmanship
Why wouldn't one want to maintain that tradition of these great craftsman?
There was never a mass manufactured product it was gunsmithing by craftsman in small shops
Vinyl records???
Mass produced by the 100's of millions over that long period they have been around
Now having said that lets expand a little
Cutting is where the art craft and magic of a vinyl record, it is the key, galavanics has to come second art craft and a little black magic there as well, pressing! well whats the big deal compression moulding on a four post press with some dude standing in front of a semi auto press, later auto presses took care of the operator one could handle at least 3 presses at the same time
So what are we going to tell these kids that are interested in the game? How to set a press?? sticking a set of stampers on an auto press than start pushing them out ? not very exciting i would have thought, may be the interest would last a while but from personal experience not to long
The bragging rights of someone making a unique product wear off eventually
May be I am completely of the mark here Ill be more than happy to be convinced otherwise
In the meantime Thanks for chipping in and keep it up
Best
C
Chris

Post Reply