Need help with acoustic recording soundbox

[cpg]

Does anybody know this acoustic cutting late shown below? It's a full mechanic system with a gravitation drive.

Unfortunately the system is missing some parts. The most important missing item is the the acoustic recording soundbox. Does anybody have any picture or description of an acoustic recording soundbox? Any idea where I could see one for rebuild purpose?

The soundbox currently mounted on the tone arm is a wax playback sound box.

Akustische Schneidemaschine 4.jpg

Akustische Schneidemaschine - Detail Motor und Fliehkraftregler.jpg

Akustische Schneidemaschine - Detail Vorschub und Tonarm 2.jpg

[Steve E.]

Geez!! Thanks for posting. As far as I know, that sort of thing is incredibly rare!! Is it yours?

[cpg]

Unfortunately it's not my equipment. My plan is to restore it and bring it back to a condition that recordings can be made with it. Therfore I see the following challenges:

Re-constructing/re-inventing an acoustical recording soundbox
Re-develop recording waxes
Re-develop recording practice using this equipment with recording on wax blanks

Any help or good idea is highly appreciated.

[Techie]

The unit has a wax playback sound box? I didn't think wax could be played back, but rather had to be used for the processing of molds, stampers, etc. Isn't that why there was uncoated aluminum, and why lacquer coated discs made such an impact on the industry?
Looking forward to others' comments about this and clarifying if I'm mistaken.

[subkontrabob]

I didn't think wax could be played back, but rather had to be used for the processing of molds, stampers, etc.

The 1943 Neumann electroacoustic pocketbook mentions special light- weight pickups for wax playback. There is also a picture of a wax shaving machine, with which a wax can be cleared for a new cut. So they could do a test cut, listen back and just shave it for reuse.

edit: gorgeous machine! Does it have a moving platter and fixed sound box?

[cpg]

I know this "Wachstonabnehmer M82" or R6 from Neumann/Telefunken. It was really able to play back head for recorded waxes. It is used with low weight and has a fixed steel needle which need not be replaced.

Here are more details on this supposed wax reproducing soundbox on this machine. There is a hinge on that soundbox allowing some horizontal movement against the movement of the platter by the feeder spindle. The needle with a spherical tip is as well fixed and not replaceable like as the later "Wachstonabnehmer". Thus I firmly belief it must be a reproducing soundbox.

Akustische Schneidemaschine - Detail Tonarm und Wachstonabnehmer 3.jpg

Akustische Schneidemaschine - Detail Tonarm 1.jpg

Akustische Schneidemaschine - Detail Tonarm 5.jpg

Akustische Schneidemaschine - Detail Tonarm 2.jpg

[emorritt]

Just my $.02; I've done a lot of research on early recording technology and my observations of this machine are thus: Most machines built for a thick wax process like Johnson's have a much longer center pin, and the turntable is thicker and more like a flywheel. This one has a short centering pin and a thinner turntable. Also, the construction of the soundbox mounted on the machine to me looks more like a recorder than a reproducer. The balanced knife edge at the rear of the armature and the precision pin at the front are much more delicate than a box intended for reproduction, even of a wax. Also, the connection of the diaphragm to the top of the armature is more like a recorder than a reproducer. The angle of the stylus and the fact that it is blunted and not sharp as intended for cutting wax, combined with the short center pin on the turntable leads me to believe that this is a copy of Beliner's recording apparatus, intended for a wax coated plate etching process, not a "cake" wax process. The hinge mentioned looks like if the box were traveling toward the center of the disc, it would not swing toward the center, but be pushed back to it's stop position. The counterweight and lever look like a counterbalance depth control and lift/drop mechanism. What material is the diaphragm made of, and is there something specifically stamped on the soundbox indicating "reproducer"?

Very interesting unit.

[Nermal]

Please talk to Peter Dilg of Baldwin, New York. He probably knows something about this unit.

-Steve E.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2

[Angus McCarthy]

Oh, man, those pictures are exactly the information I've been searching for for ages! This looks very much like a Berliner recorder, like Emoritt said. You lucky so-and-so...

As to recording blanks, I've done research on Berliner's disc recording process, using acid and zinc discs. I've had promising results etching silent test grooves into the surface of (zinc) galvanized steel, but I've yet to develop a working soundbox. (day job takes all my time these days!) The threads can be found here and here.

If you were to use purely wax recording blanks, for vapor-deposit style duplication, I would expect it to be a nearly identical material to the stearate soap used in making reproduction Edison recording blanks, and would need more of a cutting stylus than a simple scraper like this one..

[emorritt]

My thoughts were it looks like a more elaborate Berliner style machine. I've never seen any of Berliner's later lathes which he most likely developed after his famous 'Canadian retreat' following the Victor lawsuit (or many European lathes of the period.) Most information I've uncovered on the Canadian move was he was basically copying Johnson's process out of the country so he wouldn't get sued, since it was superior to the etching process. The machine pictured might be a reproducer, but the 'cues' tell me its a recording setup of some type. I have seen a photograph of a Columbia lathe, with a standard soundbox, turntable and horn at one end, indicating it would be used to play a master to check balance, sound quality etc., obviously destroying it in the process. I do know that engineers would do an aural check, probably along with the A&R people/producer before cutting one or more masters for processing. This is documented in Gerald Moore's memoirs, as he states "a test once heard, though it might send us into raptures, was useless, and had to be repeated" and he goes on to describe "being come all over of a tremble at the words, 'now we shall go for a master'."

[Snakeheadfishlab]

That is a piece of art,beautiful.....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk