Hey, I have been thinking of buying an old Recordette or a Soundscriber. I was wondering which one was better? I know that the Soundscriber was supposed to be for dictation only, and the sound is supposed to be not as good as the Recordette.
However, I found this page: http://www.geocities.com/amishfan/soundscriber.html , which is a comparison of different materials used on the Soundscriber. Some of which is fine for my purposes, especially the CD or the harddrive disc. Does anyone know if it is possible to use alternative materials with the Recordette, or do I have to use the discs that were made for it? How is the quality of the sound on the Recordette?
Also, if anyone knows any other alternative machine within the budget of a Soundscriber or Recordette, please let me know!
Thanks
-Thomas
Recordette vs Soundscriber
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Self-lather
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cuttercollector
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Someone else just asked about this I thought.
The recordette can use pretty much any modern lacquer blank.
The soundscriber embosses rather than cuts a soft plastic disc and the grooves are too shallow for a normal machine to play easily.
The soundscriber is a telephone quality dictation machine.
The recordette can be about as good as AM radio.
The recordette can use pretty much any modern lacquer blank.
The soundscriber embosses rather than cuts a soft plastic disc and the grooves are too shallow for a normal machine to play easily.
The soundscriber is a telephone quality dictation machine.
The recordette can be about as good as AM radio.
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Self-lather
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cuttercollector
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I guess you can experiment with trying to cut anything. Others here have.
There is no reason other than correct stylus shape and pressure for whatever media you are trying to cut, that you CAN'T cut something else.
The original recordette discs were either lacquer coated thin cardboard or thin aluminum or steel. Modern laxquers arre better coating on thicker aluminum base. Other things like plastic plates, old cds etc. I will defer to people that have cut them. It should theoretically be possible to adjust any machine to cut any surface as long as the stylus shape and pressure can be adjusted to give a clean cut. Heating of the material or the stylus is sometimes used to soften the material slightly for a more noise free cut.
The recordette was designed primarily to take a large radius steel cutting stylus and cut a coarse pitch laterally modulated groove compatable with 78 rpm records of it's day. In fact it's cutter is realy nothing more than one of the giant crystal pickup cartridges of the period driven off the amplifier output to cut, while being guided across the disc by a hidden leadscrew underneath driven off the turntable.
There is no reason other than correct stylus shape and pressure for whatever media you are trying to cut, that you CAN'T cut something else.
The original recordette discs were either lacquer coated thin cardboard or thin aluminum or steel. Modern laxquers arre better coating on thicker aluminum base. Other things like plastic plates, old cds etc. I will defer to people that have cut them. It should theoretically be possible to adjust any machine to cut any surface as long as the stylus shape and pressure can be adjusted to give a clean cut. Heating of the material or the stylus is sometimes used to soften the material slightly for a more noise free cut.
The recordette was designed primarily to take a large radius steel cutting stylus and cut a coarse pitch laterally modulated groove compatable with 78 rpm records of it's day. In fact it's cutter is realy nothing more than one of the giant crystal pickup cartridges of the period driven off the amplifier output to cut, while being guided across the disc by a hidden leadscrew underneath driven off the turntable.
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Self-lather
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cuttercollector
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Speed adjustable? - yes and no!
Most recordettes were 78 rpm only. There were some but pretty rare that were 78, 45, 33.
There were some bigger Wilcox Gay machines caled Recordios and some of the later ones of those were 78,33.
Of course if you are willing to grind down the motor shaft on a 78 one you can change the speed - permanantly!
A machinist might be able to make 45 and 78 collars you could slip over the modified turned down shaft to return to the 2 higher speeds. But remember just like with any other analog recorder, quality suffers as speed is reduced.
Just because an Lp cut on a pro lathe at 33 sounds better than an old 78, does not mean that the recordette will be better at that speed.
In fact the modern pro lathe will also be better at 78 than 33 all other factors being equal. I am oversimplifying a bit about eq curves and the like. Just know that something that produced AM quality recordings at 78 will NOT produce sound like a modern Lp if you cut at 33!
Most recordettes were 78 rpm only. There were some but pretty rare that were 78, 45, 33.
There were some bigger Wilcox Gay machines caled Recordios and some of the later ones of those were 78,33.
Of course if you are willing to grind down the motor shaft on a 78 one you can change the speed - permanantly!
A machinist might be able to make 45 and 78 collars you could slip over the modified turned down shaft to return to the 2 higher speeds. But remember just like with any other analog recorder, quality suffers as speed is reduced.
Just because an Lp cut on a pro lathe at 33 sounds better than an old 78, does not mean that the recordette will be better at that speed.
In fact the modern pro lathe will also be better at 78 than 33 all other factors being equal. I am oversimplifying a bit about eq curves and the like. Just know that something that produced AM quality recordings at 78 will NOT produce sound like a modern Lp if you cut at 33!
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Self-lather
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Cool. I have a bid out on a Recordio on ebay, I'm not sure if the speed is adjustable. Either way, I'm just kind of experimenting at this point. I'm trying to get my hands on a Soundscriber as well. Even if the Recordio only operates at 78, I think I'll still be happy with it. I've heard the recording done with these old machines, and I know they are scratchy and noisy.
Thanks for all your help.
-Thomas
Thanks for all your help.
-Thomas
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cuttercollector
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Well,... yes and no 
You would be amazed how good one of these can sound if you rebuild and restore the amp and mechanical parts so it operates like it did when new, then take a modern good quality lacquer and good sharp stylus, set eveything up right so it cuts a good clean silent groove, which is possible. Then use a modern source with wide dynamic range and good frequency response at the proper level into it's mic or aux input (diferent versions had one or the other). If you don't try to cut so loud that it distorts badly then play back the cut disc on a modern turntable with a correct size 78 stylus, you will be rewarded with pretty clean sound. Just not the widest frequency response in the world nor the highest level. If you are careful with it and play it only on modern tables with lightweight arms and the right size stylus, it should last about as long as any other lacquer dub.
Gib told me that on one he restored, even with just the original mic rebuilt, voice recordings played back even on the machine itself, sounded so clear and natural it sounded like the person was there in the room. That is part of the mystery of disc recording. Even a machine so limited, by modern day standards, can produce really natural sounding, clear voice recordings. There are many limitations to records, but in terms of sound there are some things they just do better than almost any other media.
You would be amazed how good one of these can sound if you rebuild and restore the amp and mechanical parts so it operates like it did when new, then take a modern good quality lacquer and good sharp stylus, set eveything up right so it cuts a good clean silent groove, which is possible. Then use a modern source with wide dynamic range and good frequency response at the proper level into it's mic or aux input (diferent versions had one or the other). If you don't try to cut so loud that it distorts badly then play back the cut disc on a modern turntable with a correct size 78 stylus, you will be rewarded with pretty clean sound. Just not the widest frequency response in the world nor the highest level. If you are careful with it and play it only on modern tables with lightweight arms and the right size stylus, it should last about as long as any other lacquer dub.
Gib told me that on one he restored, even with just the original mic rebuilt, voice recordings played back even on the machine itself, sounded so clear and natural it sounded like the person was there in the room. That is part of the mystery of disc recording. Even a machine so limited, by modern day standards, can produce really natural sounding, clear voice recordings. There are many limitations to records, but in terms of sound there are some things they just do better than almost any other media.
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Self-lather
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Wow, that gives me a lot of hope compared to some of the recordings I've heard. They were definetly passable, but noisey at the same time. How hard is it to find a new cutting needle for a recordio? I'm looking forward to trying one of these machines out.
I think I just made a deal for a Recordio that records at 35, 45, and 78. I can't wait to start experimenting!
-Thomas
I think I just made a deal for a Recordio that records at 35, 45, and 78. I can't wait to start experimenting!
-Thomas
thank you cuttercollector for your very informative and inspiring info...
I have just purchased a Wilcox Gay SR Recordette, and Im looking forward to cut.
One thing I am wondering aout is how to adjust the weight/pressure of the cutting needle, so I can experiment with different materials. Aparently the machine only has 1 button for recording, so I guess there is realy no way to adjust the pressure?
If the machine is set up to cut in hard material as aliminium discs, I am a bit worried that it will just destroy plastic and other soft materials....
Anyway, I will do a rudimentary frequency response test cutting with sinewaves, and post the results here....
I have just purchased a Wilcox Gay SR Recordette, and Im looking forward to cut.
One thing I am wondering aout is how to adjust the weight/pressure of the cutting needle, so I can experiment with different materials. Aparently the machine only has 1 button for recording, so I guess there is realy no way to adjust the pressure?
If the machine is set up to cut in hard material as aliminium discs, I am a bit worried that it will just destroy plastic and other soft materials....
Anyway, I will do a rudimentary frequency response test cutting with sinewaves, and post the results here....
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cuttercollector
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OK, now I feel like an old guy! Perhaps a short course in audio history before the Ipod is in order somewhere, but not here and not by me. I think I have seen timelines elswhere on the web but I can't give you a specific link.
There never were amature home stereo disc recorders, (though I would love to create such a product today) only professional ones. Stereo records are an order of magnatude more difficult to cut than mono ones. It is because the stylus moves both laterally (back and forth) as well as vertically (up and down) to create the distinctive left and right groove walls with the left and right channel stereo information. Mono only moves one direction - back and forth for the most common types of records, but up and down, known also as "hill and dale" for some transcription discs and Edison (flat) discs and cylinders.The era of home disc recorders pretty much ended by the early 50s with the development of practical home reel to reel tape recorders. This was the same era when 78s, though still "standard", wer rapidly being replaced by microgroove Lps and 45s - but still all mono at this point. The ONLY stereo stuff in the mid 50s were the first reel to reel home players and they were very expensive toys of the blossoming home "HiFi" enthusiasts assembling the first component setups with pre-amps, power amps, tuners (all tube), turntables etc. Stereo pretty much did not become commonplace till the 60s. The first stereo records and home players having been introduced in about 1957. The last of the Rek-O-Kut and Presto institutional semi-pro disc recorders being discontinued at about the same time - 1960 give or take a few years. But these were still pretty much 50s designs that had just stayed in production.
In fact, until the latest wave of DJ dub plate cutters around 2000, no new disc recorders had been made since the last pro units of perhaps the early 1980s, and no "home" or semi pro ones since about 1960. Most of the Recordios date from just after WWII (late 1940s) to early 50s. And there were many machines from Presto, Wilcox Gay and many others from the early 30s, even very late 20s up through WWII. The peak time for home units was probably centered around WWII, just before and just after. Practical tape recording being one of the technologies that came out of WWII, started to displace disc recording, first for pro use, then for home use in the 50s
Technical note - actually cutting aluminum has never been a widespread practice. Embossing (denting but no "chip" cut) was tried in the 30s but was not popular. There was the pro "DMM" direct metal mastering process tried in the 1980s. I think that did cut some form of metal master directly.
For the most part, lacquer coated something - cardboard, steel, aluminum has always been what the home machines cut. The pros started out with hard wax and switched to lacquer coated aluminum. What you can buy today is what is used for pro mastering. All the other stuff is low volume or experimental.
Vestax sort of started this trend I believe by creating a plastic blank for their dub plate cutter and others have followed. But all of that and all the experimentation with plastic plates, CDs etc. is well covered elsewhere on this forum.
All machines have some provision for adjusting cutter height above the disc and cutting pressure. Some have adjustments for cutting stylus angle as well. By playing around with height and how far the stylus is inserted into the cutter, you can change angle a little bit too. Those adjustments plus cutting pressure are what are essential to get a correct depth and quiet groove. It varies with stylus and disc material and must be optomized for each setup if you are going to get a quiet as possible groove to establish the noise floor of the recording. The difference between this noise floor and the peak level you are able to record with an individual cutter/amp before excessive distortion, determines the dynamic range "window" you have. BEST case with home equipment is probably about 40dB. Best for state of the art pro equipment on a freshly cut lacquer - 60dB+. Some have claimed even more. The margin with something like a recordette, which can't cut very loud without a lot of distortion, is very small. This explains why with an inexpertly set up stylus cutting some cheap barely lacquer coated cardboard record, the results of most of those home recordings were so noisy and distorted. All of the cryatal type cutters also had frequency response out to about 7khz, best case with rapid roll off after that. The turntables had quite a bit of low frequency rumble etc.etc.
Again, you are never going to cut a hot, high level stereo dub plate at 33RPM with one of these. But they are fun and can yield supprisingly natural, pleasant audio when optimized for their peak performance
There never were amature home stereo disc recorders, (though I would love to create such a product today) only professional ones. Stereo records are an order of magnatude more difficult to cut than mono ones. It is because the stylus moves both laterally (back and forth) as well as vertically (up and down) to create the distinctive left and right groove walls with the left and right channel stereo information. Mono only moves one direction - back and forth for the most common types of records, but up and down, known also as "hill and dale" for some transcription discs and Edison (flat) discs and cylinders.The era of home disc recorders pretty much ended by the early 50s with the development of practical home reel to reel tape recorders. This was the same era when 78s, though still "standard", wer rapidly being replaced by microgroove Lps and 45s - but still all mono at this point. The ONLY stereo stuff in the mid 50s were the first reel to reel home players and they were very expensive toys of the blossoming home "HiFi" enthusiasts assembling the first component setups with pre-amps, power amps, tuners (all tube), turntables etc. Stereo pretty much did not become commonplace till the 60s. The first stereo records and home players having been introduced in about 1957. The last of the Rek-O-Kut and Presto institutional semi-pro disc recorders being discontinued at about the same time - 1960 give or take a few years. But these were still pretty much 50s designs that had just stayed in production.
In fact, until the latest wave of DJ dub plate cutters around 2000, no new disc recorders had been made since the last pro units of perhaps the early 1980s, and no "home" or semi pro ones since about 1960. Most of the Recordios date from just after WWII (late 1940s) to early 50s. And there were many machines from Presto, Wilcox Gay and many others from the early 30s, even very late 20s up through WWII. The peak time for home units was probably centered around WWII, just before and just after. Practical tape recording being one of the technologies that came out of WWII, started to displace disc recording, first for pro use, then for home use in the 50s
Technical note - actually cutting aluminum has never been a widespread practice. Embossing (denting but no "chip" cut) was tried in the 30s but was not popular. There was the pro "DMM" direct metal mastering process tried in the 1980s. I think that did cut some form of metal master directly.
For the most part, lacquer coated something - cardboard, steel, aluminum has always been what the home machines cut. The pros started out with hard wax and switched to lacquer coated aluminum. What you can buy today is what is used for pro mastering. All the other stuff is low volume or experimental.
Vestax sort of started this trend I believe by creating a plastic blank for their dub plate cutter and others have followed. But all of that and all the experimentation with plastic plates, CDs etc. is well covered elsewhere on this forum.
All machines have some provision for adjusting cutter height above the disc and cutting pressure. Some have adjustments for cutting stylus angle as well. By playing around with height and how far the stylus is inserted into the cutter, you can change angle a little bit too. Those adjustments plus cutting pressure are what are essential to get a correct depth and quiet groove. It varies with stylus and disc material and must be optomized for each setup if you are going to get a quiet as possible groove to establish the noise floor of the recording. The difference between this noise floor and the peak level you are able to record with an individual cutter/amp before excessive distortion, determines the dynamic range "window" you have. BEST case with home equipment is probably about 40dB. Best for state of the art pro equipment on a freshly cut lacquer - 60dB+. Some have claimed even more. The margin with something like a recordette, which can't cut very loud without a lot of distortion, is very small. This explains why with an inexpertly set up stylus cutting some cheap barely lacquer coated cardboard record, the results of most of those home recordings were so noisy and distorted. All of the cryatal type cutters also had frequency response out to about 7khz, best case with rapid roll off after that. The turntables had quite a bit of low frequency rumble etc.etc.
Again, you are never going to cut a hot, high level stereo dub plate at 33RPM with one of these. But they are fun and can yield supprisingly natural, pleasant audio when optimized for their peak performance
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Self-lather
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