New Pitch Computer

[opcode66]

to mossboss:
spending 2-3k on someone who knows to fix the stuff (unfortunately there arent too many out there who really know how to fix and not just talk and ask big money....) would prevent blowing heads.and output transistors. and much more.
its even cheaper than fixing heads. after 30 years a big service is more than necessary. and it is not only the caps....
or just buy a new set of amps...

I know I've asked before... But, you still suggest having JVO come out for 2-3k to Chicago to work on my VMS70 with VG74 and SX74? Even if it is just restored by Al Grundy?

Also, wouldn't having an Ortofon High Pass Filter solve the problem of high frequencies cooking the cutterhead?

[Nickou]

[quote="flozki

I know I've asked before... But, you still suggest having JVO come out for 2-3k to Chicago to work on my VMS70 with VG74 and SX74? Even if it is just restored by Al Grundy?

You can ask that on a private chat ... who do you prefer ? mozart or beethoven ?

[Nickou]

.,

[opcode66]

You can ask that on a private chat ... what do you prefer ? mozart or beethoven ?

If I'm not mistaken this is a public forum. The point is to share information with people. But, it seems that everything should be in a PM according to you. This is like the third time you've tried to slap my wrist with respect to PM'ing. Why not convert the site to PM only then...

I don't see anything here that needs to be private. You have also reprimanded me for directly addressing someone in a response (like @username - blah blah blah). You said that isn't appropriate. But isn't quoting someone and then responding to the quote without directly addressing that person by name pretty much the same thing? Spend more time responding to the content and not the etiquette.

If I'm not mistaken, it's been said many times that Trolls have think skin.

[Nickou]

It is just a comment ... nothing more and nothing less.

When I read this kind of post , for me it is like reading somebody who ask to somebody else if lady gaga is better than madona , or George harisson did the guitar on my last album , do you think I have to call paul Mc Cartney for the voices ?

[Bonati]

I know I've asked before... But, you still suggest having JVO come out for 2-3k to Chicago to work on my VMS70 with VG74 and SX74? Even if it is just restored by Al Grundy?

Completely valid question. The whole point of buying a system from Al (I did) is that it works and he supports it.

And obviously you need to be active in your maintenance & education to keep it working.

[dietrich10]

people stand by their man.

we should all feel lucky that the sharing of information is very open for the cutting world.

i have sent my share of emails to many experienced cutters and experts since i started. especially in the beginning. I still question often-having never working along side or under anyone before buying the lathe, having muth install it(took longer than expected so he left 1o hours later and after maybe an hour of actual cutting..), one long day at friends room cutting on same setup and then the muth emails+al calls for weeks...

if you are buying a system from al with warranty there is no reason for jvo over. if you found a vms system elsewhere then i would fly in jvo or muth for 3+ days to install it and whatever else WILL be needed

[opcode66]

Thanks D! Always glad to hear from ya!

[flozki]

hmm i guess you didnt got my point.
i dont want to compare people....

i just want to say that 30-40 year old gear needs good servicing. and it to do seriously you need to take some money in your hands. but in the end you save a lot...

and with those example i give some examples what is behind of just changing caps.and you need good spares. or even exchange with new technology because old stuff is not available anymore.
thats is the experience i made during last 15 years.

i dont care who will do it.but it is a fact that there are not too many out.
the list with tacho generators, oscillating sal racks could be expanded to a very long list and i would stop here. a good tech knows all about that.
you can do all that yourself and find out with . no problem. but maybe you prefer cutting records to fixing gear.

[mossboss]

Hey Flo
I think every one here agrees with your points No doubt that these old beasts do need professional care and you are right there not to many experienced people left worldwide
And yes parts original are harder to get unless you happen to have spares from days gone past and using modern components is fine but you need to know what else you have to change or adjust Quite Beyond me I am afraid
On another point "Prefer to cut or fix gear" I think it is a case of having to If it gives up and you cannot get help quickly what do you do? Have a go at it
There are 2 cutting lathes in Australia One we have the other sits in someones lounge room and he cuts once or twice year a few lacquers
Its good that we know him well, as he is always there if we get into strife
and we cannot get up and running
So far so good we got going quite fast we have managed
I am not sure that a lathe cutting expert would ever eeck a living or even make enough to buy a few beers down here with one lathe running and another a showpiece
In Europe and the USA well may be they can make a living out of it I dont know what they charge for a service call but from what has been posted here for what they have to do it seems to be fair
Cheers

Cheers

[dietrich10]

hmm i guess you didnt got my point.
i dont want to compare people....

hey flo-maybe i am missing something but I read that you still think opcode should have jvo fly over even while AG is rebuilding the vms70 for him and offers service on any issues.

[GROOVE-GUARD]

hello guys , here if another diy concept ...
the little hardware pitch controll for vms 66/70 lathe , it works better than original ...
you need one "PS66" for speed and diameter...
it´s a "cpu" free analog circuit, the mechanical pitch motor/tacho are the limiting factor (like floh ) ...







ciao

[opcode66]

Nice man!!! Looks like a super clean tight build.

Im trying to make a design with the minimal parts possible. Less to go wrong over time. And, something upgradeable.

Its great to see other solutions! I love to see people create their own solutions. Even to complicated provlems.

[gold]

Very impressive. Could you tell us a little more about how it works and what you did?

[athurart09]

most "decent" pitch systems automatically controll the min depth.. and you can choose the absolut min depth of groove.
so i think with every pitch system aligned correctly you had always a groove thats deep enough... i think more problems are the different tonarme resonances...

about sending pic chips. i use to do lectures from time to time for absolute non electronic people (most even dont know the difference of a capacitor and a resistor...) with chips, pics and more and i never ever saw a pic going bad because of touching handling..static charge or so..they are just quite good protected..
ok maybe wrong polarity... but i guess customers for such a thing know how to change a chip...

good luck with your development....

Thanks for sharing.

[GROOVE-GUARD]

Very impressive. Could you tell us a little more about how it works and what you did?

I have worked in the past at a record plant / cutting studio , my passion if in electronic and audio modification ....

the "controller" circuit are the similar prinzip from the vms with 4/8 memory section ...

the box have L/R sym in and L/V out , different "delay circuit " for various rpm

the predelay are around 630ms/33rpm and 450ms/45 rpm, the reedrelay and poti are the funktion of four PS66 ...

ciao

[Factorcuts]

At this point in the thread, one asks themselves.... Should this thread been redirected to the expirmentors section?

[opcode66]

I realize that this project could be completed much more expediently and with many more features if I were to do it as a USB breakout box connected to a computer. I can get a nice computer new for about $300 with OS and monitor. I would write a custom desktop application that would interact with the audio device on the computer as well as with the USB ports. The computer would connect to a custom breakout box via USB. The breakout box would connect to the lathe using existing connection points via tuschels. A sound card in the computer with two stereo inputs would take your preview Left and Right as well as your program L.

The breakout box would receive digital data from the computer program via USB. The box would output discrete voltages via DAC converters. The box would also have the circuitry of a PS66 built in that is digitally switched. So, this would be a hyper PS66 capable of all speeds and diameters. This includes actual computer control of all of the potentiometers on the PS66. So, all settings could be stored to computer and that operating state could be restored from the computer at any time.

The desktop application would give you a very nice display on screen of the audio in several ways (freq analysis, animated waveform buffer, vu meter, stereo separation). It would also display three bar graphs for LL, LV and V. Finally, it would display a value for the Lines Per Inch. Writing a computer program to do this would be fairly easy. Creating the breakout box would not be particularly hard either. Getting the USB communications going is very well documented. Audio analysis plug-ins for software development are commonplace. I see no reason why this would not work and be affordable to produce and purchase.

This system would allow for features that have not been implemented in hardware based pitch computers. For instance, I could add code to interact with ASIO audio hardware and you could use your high end audio device with the lathe application. Thereby rendering a preview delay unnecessary. Instead of doing an analog preview via audio inputs, the application could do a digital preview. You would open a 24 bit or 32 bit audio file and the application would pre-render the entire wave's pitch and depth map. When you hit the play button, the audio goes out to your cutting amps via your own ASIO audio interface. Simultaneously, the application would send the appropriate data to the breakout box via USB for the LV, LL and V DAC's.

Ok everybody, hit me with your best shot! I know the criticism is coming... But, I feel this approach is really doing something that hasn't been done before. And is less arcane than a strictly hardware based approach. The tools to develop such a system are readily available. The development timeline would be cut severely. And, it is based on a lot of subsystems/components that are industry tested and commonplace. Finally, the updates of such a system could easily be distributed and loaded via the Internet.

[dietrich10]

I am liking where you are going. ASIO....you need to make it more universal for CORE audio etc. An AES or spdf input would be great.

[concretecowboy71]

I know this in not popular, but I like to keep as much as possible "in the box". For the amount of cutting I am doing (every day) the easier and more centralized all the components are, the better. I like the idea of not having to do the delay and I could then shop for a better bang for the buck D/A converter since I would only really need two outputs as opposed to the five I need now.

I say cheers to the idea.